Let us continue our discussion with wizardovmetal here about his views here.

1 of the funny things is, shortly after I posted this, I did see on aol news about the flood story and Noah's ark. Some stuff that wizard said ended up on this as well.

http://www.sphere.com/article/noahs-ark-was-a-circular-raft-ancient-tablet-reveals/19309746?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sphere.com%2Farticle%2Fnoahs-ark-was-a-circular-raft-ancient-tablet-reveals%2F19309746

Quote :

Did Noah Get Around in a Circular Ark?

LONDON (Jan. – Ask any Christian, Jew or Muslim to draw you a picture of Noah's ark and you'll probably get a sketch of a regular wooden boat being boarded by a procession of animals – two by two, of course. But that's all wrong. According to new evidence, the ark wasn't a pointy-prowed vessel, but a giant round raft.

This ship shape discovery was made by Irving Finkel, an expert in ancient Mesopotamia (now Iraq) at London's British Museum. While translating a 3,700-year-old clay tablet inscribed with Babylonian cuneiform script – passed to the museum by the son of a British Air Force man, who picked it up while serving in the Middle East during World War II – he spotted an "extremely exciting" reference to the ark's "circular design." This was a revelation, says Finkel, not only because he'd never thought of the ark as round, but because this was the first-ever ancient description of the ark's shape. Neither the Bible nor other Babylonian documents featuring the great flood offered any guidance of that sort.

When you see paintings of Noah's ark, it always has a prow and a stern, and it's an ocean-going vessel that could get you from A to B," says Finkel. "But the poet who wrote this version conceived the ark as a giant coracle, which have steep sides and a rounded bottom." These highly stable boats, he notes, were used to float goods and animals from one side of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers to the other, and are still sometimes used in Iraq today.

"I think when the rains came and the waters covered the earth, the idea was that this boat would keep everybody safe," he says. "They'd bob around on top of the water and then when the waters went down, everyone could get out safely. It didn't have to go anywhere. It just had to be unsinkable."

The hero of the newly translated tablet – which is slightly bigger than a cell phone, and is inscribed with 60 lines of cuneiform text – isn't Noah, but a possible historical predecessor named Atram-Hasi. It begins with a mischievous Babylonian god named Enki telling the wise, kind and holy Atram-Hasi how to escape a great deluge planned by his rival deities. (They were apparently fed up with noisy humans, who interfered with their sleep.)

"Wall, wall! Reed wall, reed wall!" says Enki. "Atram-Hasis, pay heed to my advice, that you may live forever! Destroy your house, build a boat; despise possessions and save life! Draw out the boat that you will built with a circular design; Let its length and breadth be the same."

Like an ancient DIY guru, Enki gives his chosen man precise instructions: He's told to use plaited palm fiber, waterproofed with bitumen, for the hull, and advised on how he should build cabins for the people and wild animals. The episode ends with Atram-Hasis commanding an unfortunate boat builder, who will be left to die on land, to seal the door once everyone is safely inside: "When I shall have gone into the boat, caulk the frame of the door."

The story may only be a work of fiction, built upon folk memories of great river floods long past, but it demonstrates the exceptional storytelling skills of the Babylonians. Finkel believes the tale deliberately ends on a cliffhanger – "You can almost imagine the theme music coming in as the door is closed," he says – to leave the audience craving the next episode, which would have continued Atram-Hasis' incredible odyssey.

And he believes that ancient Jews living in exile in Babylon at this time would also have been wowed by the tale. So much, in fact, that they may have transformed it into their own epic story: Noah and the ark.

What is interesting, is that the modern day Air Craft Carrier is based off the design of the Ark, mentioned in Genesis.

What this tablet is about is just another tale of a world wide flood. Similar and different.

the "ark" was submarine shaped and yes humanity was a nusiance to the gods, but enki being our creator didnt want us destroyed so he saved humanity by telling them of the coming flood and told them how to protect ourselves from it by building this vessel

in reply to the thread how far does regeneration go?

im just going to say this one thing, if i was being a martyr i would argue with you LV i dont argue with you because of this reason, and because it is a waste of time to defend something that needs no defense, not to mention your looking for a fight which once again im not going to give you enough said, from this point on posts like this will be ignored by me, a person cant argue with himself and as far as dogma goes im talking ANY AND ALL DOGMA not just christianity and the reason i dont post on the gorgortoth forums is because theres never anything interesting to talk about

wizardovmetal wrote:

in reply to the thread how far does regeneration go?

im just going to say this one thing, if i was being a martyr i would argue with you LV i dont argue with you because of this reason, and because it is a waste of time to defend something that needs no defense, not to mention your looking for a fight which once again im not going to give you enough said, from this point on posts like this will be ignored by me, a person cant argue with himself and as far as dogma goes im talking ANY AND ALL DOGMA not just christianity and the reason i dont post on the gorgortoth forums is because theres never anything interesting to talk about

As I have told you, I am not looking for a fight. I am challenging you on your claims. Every post I have posted is challenging your claims, that is all. You make claims and fail to counter my claim. That is as far as anything goes, either with me or with someone else.

You make claims, so therefore, you feel no need to back them up? If what you say is truth, then truth needs to be defended. You make a claim of "Truth" and then fail to back it up. That means, you can not back it up and since I can challenge it, shows that it can not stand up to criticism. Therefore, you have no clue on how to back up statements. That is the conclusion i draw from and what others draw from.

You bring in a belief system and fail to defend it. Because, as you just said, "it needs no defense". Are you God? are you a superhuman? That you can make such claims and feel no need to back up your statements. Which is what I have been asking you to do.

The fact you do not defend your points means either, you do not understand your beliefs and are unable to make a defense. Or you think so lowly of your beliefs that you do not need to defend them, either, you are presenting a view not worth taking notice by anyone or you are throwing words out hoping the stick together. Thus, you are making yourself a fool.

Now, just show some form of defense of your beliefs. That is what I ask you to do.

I have seen nothing of your beliefs worth obtaining. All I have seen is gibberish, you are throwing jello against the wall hoping it sticks. Yet, you criticize Christianity without impunity, and ask us to accept your criticizing as "TRUTH", and when we do the same to you, you say "It is a waste of time". You are very arrogant and very foolish at the same time.

What gives you the right to criticize us, and then ignore our criticism of you?

As long as you criticize us, I will be there to hammer you back, whether you respond or not. I will show how infantile your system and beliefs are.

From what you have stated, you have rejected Christianity, and you turned on us and hammer us. I feel it is fair game. I will defend my faith against you.

wizardovmetal wrote:

the "ark" was submarine shaped and yes humanity was a nusiance to the gods, but enki being our creator didnt want us destroyed so he saved humanity by telling them of the coming flood and told them how to protect ourselves from it by building this vessel

Why do you accept Enki as the creator and reject Yahweh of the Bible?

Now Wizard, here is a forum, post your beliefs and why you believe them. Defend your faith, here is the opportunity to do so.

Here is question number two: What god or gods do you believe in? Why are they greater than the Christian God, that you once embraced and now rejected?

wizardovmetal wrote:

in reply to the thread how far does regeneration go?

im just going to say this one thing, if i was being a martyr i would argue with you LV i dont argue with you because of this reason, and because it is a waste of time to defend something that needs no defense, not to mention your looking for a fight which once again im not going to give you enough said, from this point on posts like this will be ignored by me, a person cant argue with himself and as far as dogma goes im talking ANY AND ALL DOGMA not just christianity and the reason i dont post on the gorgortoth forums is because theres never anything interesting to talk about

Sad, but true on the Gorgoroth forums. I did see your 2 posts there. Joy of Satan and Racism. The very same reasons why I don't post there are the same reasons.

Now, to be honest with you, as I've seen of Satanism, Satanism is not a faith of hiding Truth/Knowledge/Wisdom, so in all Honesty, I'm with Lord Voldemort in terms of, reveal the Truth to us, and together, let us evaluate it. Satanism is not about having pride in your beliefs, so don't get offended.

Even the Satanic imagery (at least to me) is about revealing. Inverted Cross (Christian Symbol), Pentagram (Pagan Symbol) and even the Baphomet (Christian Symbol) is what I see as the symbolism of revealing. Occult even means Hidden knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong.

Here or Gorgoroth, I am very open to the discussion regardless of who screams or to you. However though, you do to an extent destroy what I have viewed as Satanism in favor of your Satanic views. To be honest with you, and you will see on the Gorgoroth forums, like the A New Church Fire in Norway thread, that the individuals there respect my views whether we agree or not. Differing views yes, but you must be open to it. You may be like this now, but who knows, from what I've seen on a majority of Satanic bands, even the die-hard start to open up and mellow out of their militant stance, just like I did.

Also, I have proven you don't need to leave the Faith in order to Bash, Question, or Challenge the Faith or it's followers.

im not exactly sure what your talking about....in all seriousness DOL and because, ever historian knows the sumerian texts predate the bible by thousands of years genesis 6000 years old, enuma elish, at least 10,000[quote]

wizardovmetal wrote:

im not exactly sure what your talking about....in all seriousness DOL and because, ever historian knows the sumerian texts predate the bible by thousands of years genesis 6000 years old, enuma elish, at least 10,000

As I told you, that is not a qualifier, if that were true, my words would invalidate your simply because I am older than you.

Genesis is not 6,000 years old. It is about 4,000 years old. That is because the Hebrew People did not exist til at least 4,000 years ago.

So again, offer something more sustainable. That was a fallacy.

[quote="wizardovmetal"]im not exactly sure what your talking about....in all seriousness DOL and because, ever historian knows the sumerian texts predate the bible by thousands of years genesis 6000 years old, enuma elish, at least 10,000

Quote :

What parts exactly? From my post I just posted I see 2 portions of it. Part 1 is about revealing what you believe. Since I may have not been clear enough, I was saying, don't hold back on your views and where you get your views from. As you know on Christianity, we have a Book of Books called the Bible. If you've never read a Bible (Not talking about you, just in general), then we need a link to see where we can read the texts, like www.biblegateway.com for example on The Bible.

Since you are speaking of Sumerian texts, I haven't read it, and I don't have a physical copy in my hand. As such, I am needing a link to read it.

An example for me on what I'm talking about, is Tartaros. Tartaros is an underground world that has been mentioned in Scriptures that fallen angels go to. What I just said on Tartaros, could be a Truth or a lie. Who know's? So, from here, it is my duty to post where I got this belief/ideal from. Here is the proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartaros

This is what I'm talking about, and this is how everybody is asking you to show off what you believe. If it is only from your eyes, and not that of a site or a book or anything, let us know it is just your idea simply.

Part 2 is this: The way you write on here, or there is going to be the deciding factor on how people view you. You post in an intelligent, informing manner, and you will be seen as intelligent and informing. Post as a martyr or a troll, you will be viewed as a martyr or a troll. How you contribute is how you are going to get treated. That is what I was trying to say on part 2.

i will list only the four crown princes as it would be way to massive to make lists of all of them

Enki

Known as Ea to the babylonians and Ptah in egypt

Enlil

Enlil is the original "Bel", which later evolved into "Baal", which means "Lord", or "Master". He is also known throughout the times as Baalzebub, Bel, Enlil meaning “Lord of the Wind”, Per Bub, Baal Zebul, and Beelzebuth. He is also known as the Goetic demon "Bael".
Beelzebub, for those whom worshiped him in all places, was known as the God of weather and meteorology. He also controlled the airways when the Nephilim came to Earth, thus he is referred to as lord of all that flies which was perverted in the bible to Lord of the Flies.

Astaroth

She was known to the Canaanites as Astarte, to the Sumerians, she was known as Inanna, to the Babylonians, she was known as Ishtar. To the Assyrians and the Akkadians, Ashtart, Ashtoreth, Asherah, and Astoreth, to the Egyptians, Isis, Ashet and Aset, to the Phoenecians, she was known as Tanit-Ashtart and Ashtaroth. Her Ugaritic name was Anat and to the Greeks, she was known as Aphrodite.

Azazel

Also Zazel, Samyaza, Samyazazel, Shamgaz, Shemyaza, Shamyaza, Shemihazah, Shamash (Babylonian), UTU ( Sumerian; The Shining One), Samas (Akkadian), Babbar (Sumerian), Ashur (Assyrian), Shamiyah (Hathra), Semjaza

some of the info on these came off enkiea.org

to learn more about the gods you can visit the section on them

http://enkiea.org/index/thegods.html

if you want the enuma elish, go out and buy it yourself, im not responsible to handing out books to everyone on the BB and there is no reliable translation of it on the internet

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/stc/index.htm

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/enuma.html

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resources/Ane/enumaA.html

http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/enuma.html

http://lexicorient.com/e.o/enuma_elish.htm

http://www.theologywebsite.com/etext/enuma/enuma.shtml


OK...so you are telling me that not a single one of the above sites which have a translation of the text of the Enuma Elish are reliable?

I find that very hard to believe.

many people have told me they arent reliable

What book is considered reliable by the many people that you have spoken to?

wizardovmetal wrote:

many people have told me they arent reliable

This is Wizard being irresponsible again with information.

"Many" people could be his parents or the guy on the street he gets his religion from, who disagrees with academia.

There are many translations of something, it all depends on the education of the person translating it, and their knowledge of Sumerian and their tenses of words and how it is translated into English.

So who would be reliable? You, is your knowledge of Sumerian so greater than most? Or do you have a particular translation?

Or did you create one yourself that will blow all the others away?

wizardovmetal wrote:

if you want the enuma elish, go out and buy it yourself, im not responsible to handing out books to everyone on the BB and there is no reliable translation of it on the internet

You can have the courtesy of recommending a book to us "unenlightened".

If I disagreed with a text online, I would at least offer a book that could be a better alternative.

I asked you to legitimate question, I would like an answer to.

Are you a convert now to Sumerian religion or is this all part of "Satanism" of your belief system?

I am trying to see what you believe, all I see is you throwing jello on the wall. Now, If I am missing something and I am barking up the wrong tree. Please do correct me. I am trying to make sense of your "satanism" all the while trying to refute what you are saying, because you are making no sense whatsoever on anything.

Now, I am asking you, tell me what you believe. Are you a "Satanist", a "Sci-fi religion" fanatic" or a Sumerian/mythology beliefs or a mixture of them all?

my beleifs www.enkiea.org

and i dont claim to be "enlightened" its simply a goal im working on

wizardovmetal wrote:

many people have told me they arent reliable

Which is to be read as "I refuse to look at those sites".

Don't think I don't know how you think on that. I used to use that statement many times when people were trying to shove Christian websites down my throat when I was a Satanist.

I can't speak for them all, as I don't recognize all of the websites, but the first link is an extremely credible site if you want to find anything regarding world religions. I have had little need to go to it recently, as world religion study hasn't been a goal of mine lately, but it is something I would definitely use if needed.

againsttheantichrist wrote:

wizardovmetal wrote:

many people have told me they arent reliable

Which is to be read as "I refuse to look at those sites".

I'll remember to scrutinize you next time you refuse to check out a Zeitgeist link that somebody posts for you.

lord voldemort wrote:

wizardovmetal wrote:

im not exactly sure what your talking about....in all seriousness DOL and because, ever historian knows the sumerian texts predate the bible by thousands of years genesis 6000 years old, enuma elish, at least 10,000

As I told you, that is not a qualifier, if that were true, my words would invalidate your simply because I am older than you.

Genesis is not 6,000 years old. It is about 4,000 years old. That is because the Hebrew People did not exist til at least 4,000 years ago.

So again, offer something more sustainable. That was a fallacy.

I was asked to add more info to this.

The age being called into question is a fallacy as stated.

Reason is, because simply because the Jews do not pre-date the Sumerians, does not mean the Jews are wrong. As the Jewish people were being formed, Sumeria was a growing power in the Middle East. By the time the Jews became a nation and wrote down their version of history, Sumeria was conquered by Babylon and no longer a civilization.

Just because the Jews had similar storied does not disprove or state they stole them, it means, there is a common history between the races, that they all felt needed to be recorded. A flood, God creating the world, fall of man, etc.

There are hundreds of stories in mythology, all stating roughly the same thing. God or gods created the world, God or gods flood the world, man became evil, God or gods punished him.

Just because two or more civilizations have the same story, it is a fallacy to conclude one stole it from another. Then that would mean, one civ had it, and the rest stole it from them. That would be hard to do. It is easier to believe there was a common history being written.

I might add that the similarities between other myths makes a lot of sense. Christ could not come down with us humans in a form which we could not recognize, otherwise we could not relate to him.