https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKrTK_WUiCo

enyone got this???

so know onw at all whats to talk about it

I've never heard of that before, although it echoes my own thoughts on the subject. Anyone can parrot anything though, Christianity or atheism. Unless you do your own research, it's always going to be blind faith.

Yet another reason to refer to the bible that Christians use as The Holy Bible.

IronGuardian wrote:

I've never heard of that before, although it echoes my own thoughts on the subject. Anyone can parrot anything though, Christianity or atheism. Unless you do your own research, it's always going to be blind faith.

Agreed.

so dose this mean you guys think that the book is a dumb idea?

Kräg wrote:

so dose this mean you guys think that the book is a dumb idea?

To the contrary, anything that can be used by the Holy Spirit to draw a person closer to The Savior is a 'smart idea'. The Lord works in mysterious ways, we do not know how or when a so-called 'atheist' might turn a page in this book. Let's just pray it happens and that it will be instrumental.

interesting,....i may pick it up if i ever see it,....or is it some special order thing?

Kräg wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKrTK_WUiCo

enyone got this???

No. I got their 'Evidence Bible' though.

If it's anything similar... it's Ray Comfort's translation of the KJV (which means it's the KJV except he's changed the 'thee' and 'thou art' and so on to 'you' and 'you are', but hasnt changed other words like 'betwixt' or whatever, so it's not the same as the NKJV).

It also has Ray's commentaries and FAQs in it. Some of his bits on science come from Dr Kent Hovind, who is in jail for not paying his taxes. It teaches some theories from creation science, which I don't think is necessarily correct. Christians can be wrong.

If I could ask Ray some questions, they would be:

1. Does holding up an umbrella make it rain?
   
   
2. Does trusting Christ and repenting of your sin make you born-again?
   
   
3. Can a person sincerely and truly repent and trust Christ without God first giving them a change of heart?
   
   
4. If no, then why do you repeatedly assert that salvation is 'possible' for every person, if God isnt saving everyone and they can't do anything to be saved?

To be honest, I think some of Ray's theology is not so good - he won't hold to 'limited atonement' (he is curiously quiet on Romans ch 9) though he seems to love Charles Spurgeon, who was a hardcore Calvinist. His teaching on regeneration also seems muddled. His translation is not as easy to read as say, the ESV (English Standard Version, that I use). He claims that he is against trying to get 'decisions for Christ', or I guess decision-based regeneration ... but on the other hand preaches a weird presentation that states that you can't do anything to be saved, then ends with telling you what you must do to be saved. If anyone understands that like I did when I first found out about it a few years back...I thought that salvation is based on your faith and repentance. Therefore you have to try really hard to be sincere, which Ray says is not the case. But if salvation is according to Christ's actions as opposed to mine, why does he teach that everyone can be saved, as if it's up to something they do? If God doesn't save everyone, yet everyone can be saved, then salvation is ultimately up to the individual and not God. He is confusing on this.

On the other hand, Ray I think baits atheists so they may just read it out of spite or curiosity to see what the 'banana man' believes.

A lot of the former-Christian atheists that I've talked to online testify that they were only in the faith because they were afraid of hell, but never seemed to get past that. They believe that Christianity teaches that if you behave yourself and deny for yourself all the things that you would really rather be doing, or work hard enough or so on, then you'll get to heaven. You might ask, well how on earth did they ever think they were Christian in the first place? They've apparently missed the Christian 101. I think some of it comes down to crappy gospel presentations that say that you must repent and believe in order to be saved. That's just back to front. You must repent and believe, but you must be saved in order to do that.

I would recommend this book to atheists and Christians alike: Justification and Regeneration ( http://www.amazon.com/Justification-Regeneration-Expanded-Charles-Leiter/dp/0981732151/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264464527&sr=8-1 )

I would also reccomend this to an atheist friend: http://www.supernaturalseed.com/demo/demo_pda.cfm

I think the latter goes beyond scripture a little bit, though I don't think it teaches salvation by works at least. It's pretty good.

I think it's a great idea, Kirk gets a lot of crap for dumb reasons, though he's a really smart guy. I think he just needs to let go of that Ray Comfort guy.