What do you think of Lakewood Church and Joel Osteen's approach to ministry?

Personally, I don't approve of it. I think that, if you live to love and glorify God, He will make everything in your spiritual life fall into place just by touching it with His favor. He gives us all we need to love life and rejoice because we have it! But where Lakewood Church fails epically (IMO) is that it reduces this beautiful reward and makes it out to be the objective itself, which makes the Christian life look like a shallow pursuit of self-improvement. Joel Osteen feeds a dangerous, yet common misconception that being a Christian is about following rules so that God will make your life better. It's basically motivational self-help, but "God flavored". There's just no way that Lakewood could be construed as glorifying God. Look at its slogan, "discover the champion in you", look at Osteen's best selling "devotional" Your Best Life Now, or just observe any of the sermons on TV, and you'll see plainly that Lakewood isn't preaching about us helping God, but rather God helping us. We are beautiful creations of our Maker, but we've also been made disgusting with our sin, and repentance and glorifying Him should always be the base messages of the church! Maybe I'm a bit emotionally inclined on this subject, because a very close friend of mine recently abandoned God, and it's thanks to the Lakewood Church message: "be a good little Christian and God will make your life happy". This friend is fed up because his life didn't improve after years of regularly reading his Bible, praying, and attending church. If only my dear friend would see that it's his own self-centered intentions that have hindered him! The only time I've ever been truly happy in my life is when I've completely forgotten about myself, and submitted to God with a desire to only give Him glory, not worrying about whether or not I'll become happier out of it. Just "trying Jesus" to see if He will make you happier makes for little but wavering faith when He doesn't give you the "song and dance" you were hoping for. We have to go balls out for God! Osteen rarely (never?) preaches about sacrificing everything we have to magnify the One who sacrificed His own life for us, when we couldn't have deserved His love less. And if that's not at the heart and foundation of a message, then it isn't a Gospel message, as far as I'm concerned.

great post! great wisdom! backing u up 110% on this one!!!

Joel Osteen is a heretic, plan and simple. He thinks he is somehow more wise than God, so he presents a false gospel where there is no conviction of sin, no Jesus, no Theology, just baptized humanism. The spirit of pride and self indulgence, and error is present at this place.
He's just another Oprah Winfrey clothed in priestly garb.

Joel Osteen is dangerous. I would stay away from him.

He has stated that he will not mention the issue of sin and our natural rebellion against God to his flock. He refuses to speak about the 2 main parts of the Gospel - first, the nature of God, His sovereignty, justice, holiness, etc., and second, the nature of man, his rebellion, his depravity, his fallen state, etc.

Because he refuses to speak about this, he is doing millions of people a great injustice.

Ugh I'm sick of him and his TV "sermons"...more like "look at me shows!"

mazzie wrote:

Ugh I'm sick of him and his TV "sermons"...more like "look at me shows!"

Sermons? You mean self-help speeches?

Mark Driscoll speaking about Joel Osteen.

I don't agree that Joel is a Christian brother, because he preaches a different gospel, but the rest of what Mark said I do agree with.

sherri wrote:

great post! great wisdom! backing u up 110% on this one!!!

Thank you!

Broc, that video was pretty interesting. A lot of what Osteen preaches I actually do agree with, and I like his encouraging approach. But I consider him a sellout, because he only preaches (and exaggerates to the point of heresy) the "positive", "uplifting" aspects of Christianity and leaves out some of the most vital aspects of the Gospel. I don't think there's anything wrong with preaching encouragement or even self-improvement. Charles Stanley does it all the time, but the difference is that Dr. Stanley preaches the whole Gospel, warts and all; he just happens to have a knack for spiritual encouragement that does not get in the way of bringing all glory to God. Don't think for a moment that I'm against uplifting, empowering sermons - I do attend a Pentecostal church, after all. But Lakewood is the only church I've ever seen that fails to present this simple message: "God is good, God abounds in glory. We fall short of His glory because we are full of sin and depravity. Christ is the solution. Submit yourself to Him, and give away your sinful lifestyle in favor of one that's pleasing in His sight".

He's a total joke. A snake-oil salesman taking advantage of ignorant Christians and people trying to come to Christ. Selling fruitless self-help books disguised as a religious leader is pure heresy.

He creeps me out with his Mega Fake White Grin... spells $$$ and feel good ministry, rather than the real stuff... which makes you think and get real with God.

He's a postmodern social gospel advocate, just like the rest of the schmucks in the emergent church. Beware the (many) wolves in sheep's clothings.

eternalmystery wrote:

Mark Driscoll speaking about Joel Osteen.

I don't agree that Joel is a Christian brother, because he preaches a different gospel, but the rest of what Mark said I do agree with.

I find a lot more wrong stuff into Mark's counter argument than with Joel's argument.

For one, I can't believe that Mark ommited to comment on this prophetic passage about Jesus:
Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
And also all the others that talk about victory for the people of God in the bible.

What does it mean? It means that because Jesus died. We live (life in it's fullness (health, etc etc) It doesn't mean that you'll never suffer. Because Jesus said that if we can not lay down our life for Him, we are not worthy of Him. But at the same time, if we really had to pay for our sins, the same way Jesus paid, by getting beaten up, injured, and all the things like Mark said, then His sacrifice would be vain. Do you get my point? I do not believe in full pin prosperity gospel. But I do not believe either in defeatism. God made me a conqueror. I dont give a crap about the **** happening in my life. I know there's more for me. I know my God loves me and I know that I can go further in my life. And not fall in this defeatist mindset. "Oh well... Jesus suffered... I should suffer too.." NO! why did Jesus suffer? For you and I! He paid our debt for us! He took out sicknesses! Yes, suffering happens, but if you are happy with it, how will you fight against it? How will you go further in your spiritual life if you are stagnant, and happy with your mediocrity!?

Here's the deal, it's not true that you will never suffer no matter how close to God you are. God walks us through struggles to form us, pretty much like when you purify gold with fire. HOWEVER, acting like a defeatist (really, like Mark implies) won't get you anywhere. Ever. Since the Earth was created, till the day it will burn. Defeatist won't go anywhere.

Now listen, I don't know for you guys. But I prefer to live my life with a positive mindset, knowing that my God is Almighty and that He paid for my sins and all that the fall of man brought (sicknesses and torments etc). I believe in what I read from the bible.

There is a ton of verses that Mark just closed his eyes on. I am not a Joel Osteen follower, I pick some stuff, I leave the rest.

Here's my view anyways: Be pure for God, so that He may use you as a direct dedicated channel for Him to bring hope to others. Be a tool for God to save souls. Defeatists don't save souls. The conquerors go, they don't look at what's around them. They just go balls out for Christ. And this is what Jesus wants from us. To be burning of passion for Him. A defeatist is warm/cold. He is stagnant. A stagnant Christian bears no fruits.

P.S. I was a defeatist for almost all my life until recently (a year, now). And never ever, will I go back into this spiritual prison that defeatism is. I figured that if I was to run the good race, I needed to be positive. I needed to be a winner. Not being a winner by saying "God gimmy a mercedes, God gimmy a manor" No. Being a winner by turning from my sins and working for Christ. Laying down my life to his feet, only to get it back in a much, much richer way. Here, on Earth, and in Heaven.

If God allows me to be persecuted because of Christ, okay. But please note this: "because of Christ". Not for anything else. I won't accept it otherwise. I'll fight against it. And guess what? I'll win. Because God is Almighty and He is in me.

people are judgemental and often wrong

mystery wrote:

people are judgemental and often wrong

I totally agree. Like Osteen when he judges God, thinking he is somehow wiser and more crafty than God, that he just gets on a stage, spewing whatever garbage he wants while calling himself a pastor and completely misrepresenting scripture. I totally agree with you that people are judgmental concerning scripture and toward God. Judgment day will be a terrible day.

Dont get me started on Osteen and his "Church".
Mark Driscoll is a great guy and speaks truth!

Hero wrote:

I find a lot more wrong stuff into Mark's counter argument than with Joel's argument.

He isn't preaching defeatism. You're reading too much into what he's saying.

Crucify The Flesh wrote:

Dont get me started on Osteen and his "Church".
Mark Driscoll is a great guy and speaks truth!

Mark says it how it is, how refreshing that is.

Is this the name it and claim it dude? I don't watch tv preachers that often.

I go to Mark Driscoll's church. It's a really great church to be in.

water mouse, yes, it's the name it and claim it dude.

river rat, you have the right to have a Mercedes Benz. Just think about it a lot and it will become a reality. Like, make it your idol........it'll happen.

I dont agree with everything Osteen says, neither do I agree with everything Mark says.

Mark is a great pastor, I absolutely love his preaching on humility, yet I sometimes find (like in the youtube video that Broc posted) that he is wrong.

While Osteen may exaggerate on some scriptures passages, Mark seemed to completely forget about why Jesus sacrificed Himself for us depraved sinners. "By his wounds, we are healed". Not so that we would live in sufferings and torments, but to give us life (freedom/victory) in it's fullness. If we would indeed need to suffer in every way like Jesus did, His sacrifice would be vain. Cause we would end up paying ourselves for our sins. But it is not the case. And really, I can't believe that some pastors are still preaching this: "Jesus suffered, suffer aswell"..... Yes, get persecuted for Him if it happens, but do not dwell in sorrow, in a really deadly stagnancy, as if you had to suffer for any reason (other than Jesus). Cause really, except for the persecutions that we Christians can suffer because of Christ, we should not accept defeat, ever. Cause even in our persecutions, we are victorious.

Following a pastor's entire preaches (with their opinions) like if was The Holy Word of God is rather dangerous because humans are not perfect. And while some pastors may be used by The Spirit in a more powerful way than others, there is always room for human error and conceptions in some preaches.

Take some, leave some.
Not based on what you like. Based on The Scriptures.
Scriptures tell me I am victorious. Therefore, I am.

John 10:10 (New International Version)
10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Isaiah 53:5
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Peter 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

FuneralOath wrote:

mystery wrote:

people are judgemental and often wrong

I totally agree. Like Osteen when he judges God, thinking he is somehow wiser and more crafty than God, that he just gets on a stage, spewing whatever garbage he wants while calling himself a pastor and completely misrepresenting scripture. I totally agree with you that people are judgmental concerning scripture and toward God. Judgment day will be a terrible day.

yea, im certainly no supporter of him. he makes christianity seem very material and like some sort of wiccan magick that will solve every problem in your life.

FuneralOath wrote:

I go to Mark Driscoll's church. It's a really great church to be in.

water mouse, yes, it's the name it and claim it dude.

river rat, you have the right to have a Mercedes Benz. Just think about it a lot and it will become a reality. Like, make it your idol........it'll happen.

LOL. Well since I have the right for a Benz without actually working for it I think I'll have me a 2 million dollar home. I'll think real hard about it.

eternalmystery wrote:

Mark Driscoll speaking about Joel Osteen.

I don't agree that Joel is a Christian brother, because he preaches a different gospel, but the rest of what Mark said I do agree with.

I like 6;28 onwerd, it reminds me im not the only one

I'm liking Hero's posts for the biggest parts.
I follow a similar (yet not entirely the same) mindset.

I may not agree with what joel Osteen does....but I beleive he is still appointed by God to preach...and maybe evewn called to preach what he does...we dont know God....





*now Matt goes and runs and hides )