Well there is tons of videos on youtube trying to disprove christianity, I thought we can mae a thread where we post them here, and we all work together on soemthing (instead of debating for a change) on howw to give a counterargument to these videos

Ha, from what I have seen, we wouldn't have to work too hard.
Most of these people's arguments come from either emotion/personal things, or misunderstandings, or the 'that seems unfair' argument.

Heres one... ^ and i agree lol


sorry if theres any language... i didnt see the whole thing before posting :/

ok well i watched it...kinda funny actually

This guys probelm is.. he is very ignorant


Does he not relize taht beimng nice..coems form your morals? So to say he doesnt have morals.. ispure ignorance.

Im not even gonna go with the evolution... we have a seperate thread for taht..

He obviously reallly misunderstands christianity.

How can life not have a meaning?

It makes no sense.

Everyone worships soemthing, it can be anything for mthe one true god... to marshmallows, but everyone mut worship soemthing. It can be yourself, so his purpoase in life is to live without having to answer to anyone... which is teh only reason atheists are atheists.. its a big excuse to party all day.

MetLHed4GZus wrote:

...his purpoase in life is to live without having to answer to anyone... which is teh only reason atheists are atheists.. its a big excuse to party all day.

No.

Munkey106 wrote:

MetLHed4GZus wrote:

...his purpoase in life is to live without having to answer to anyone... which is teh only reason atheists are atheists.. its a big excuse to party all day.

No.

well to him it is i mean... we all know everyones purpose in life is too live for god and to live out his paln for us

ROFLCOPTER!!!!

Their futile effort to disprove Christianity is actually proving it.

Think about it this way...if God truly didn't exist, why would atheists waste so much of their life trying to prove that to others? If that is really the case, wouldn't they just sit there and watch us rot?

They believe there is a God, they just do everything possible to pretend He doesn't exist and to persuade others to pretend that He doesn't exist.

againsttheantichrist wrote:

ROFLCOPTER!!!!

Their futile effort to disprove Christianity is actually proving it.

Think about it this way...if God truly didn't exist, why would atheists waste so much of their life trying to prove that to others? If that is really the case, wouldn't they just sit there and watch us rot?

They believe there is a God, they just do everything possible to pretend He doesn't exist and to persuade others to pretend that He doesn't exist.

that makes no sense at all. some people have serious problems with perspective.

Here is my shot at this video:


[Point 1: Morality] This point does not particularly work as proof against Christianity.

[Point 2: Evolution] I agree there is evidence for evolution and I don't deny that it occurred. As to how much, I do not know, and I am undecided on my position regarding creationism, etc. I do believe God created things, but that some evolution did occur. This one really isn't a proof against Christianity either.

[Point 3: What is the meaning and purpose of your life?] He is right to say that this reasoning has a problem: it isn't really reasoning. It is his opinion on a matter based on what he would "like" vs. what he would not "like". What I would say is that truth is not defined by our likes and dislikes (which I'm sure he is aware of). Personally, I don't believe in Christianity just because "Oh, I like this religion/faith", no, I believe it because of a real and true conversion experience.

Now, he goes on to mention things about the nature of God. (Paraphrase:) "If someone created this fly, which lays eggs in a soldiers wounds and makes them fester bla bla bla... we would call this man an evil son of a *****, but when we say God made it we praise his name for his glorious creation".

This is an argument which appeals to emotion. Now, I do not think this particular argument really on any standing disproves the existence and truth of God, however what it does do is question peoples understandings, worldviews, etc. In order to counter this, all that need be said is: We are essentially owned by God. We are His creation and He may do with us what He wills for His plans. If you want to call God evil for creating a fly that festers in someone's wound and causes them pain, or because people die, etc. then you need to ask yourself how exactly do you define evil when there is no (true) greater morality (which this man has already conceded (he believes that all morality is man made and in effect "evil" because it's used to control people)). All you can define is either "good for me" or "bad for me". So, you are going to say the universe must operate on your terms? What is good for you must demonstrate the truth of the matter while what is bad for you is the vilest evil? What elevates you to such a position that what you define as good and evil must be the way the universe works. As said earlier, and I'm sure he'll agree, just because you like something does not mean it is true and just because you do not like something does not mean it is false. The ultimate question is, because it sure won't depend on my own reasoning, my own likes and dislikes, my own emotions, etc.: what is the truth?

Basically two thirds of this video was not really an argument against Christianity but more-so this man's answers to the questions he was asked. The third point, he began to focus more on questioning the Christian world-view. This is the kind of thing that we need to address as a body of believers. I believe that defending our faith from these kind of attacks is very important, both for the sake of the Gospel and for our own spiritual walks.



Now, this thread will absolutely suck if you're not willing to write out refutations of the actual argument. Saying things like "That arrgument was dumb, all atheists are deluding themselves bla bla bla they really know there is a God but just want to deceive others" doesn't go anywhere and it profits no one This thread could be a real use in building up our apologetic skills, our general knowledge, and it could be very edifying if we all participate by working on refutations of these videos. It may also challenge our faith and help us to overcome some challenging questions that may arise. Let's try and use this thread to it's full potential

Hear another one we shoud fight agenst...

godisimaginary.com

Internet atheists arguments are so stupid I could refute them in my sleep. Unfortunately, people are stupid enough to believe them, so we should argue against them.

Kräg wrote:

Hear another one we shoud fight agenst...

godisimaginary.com

alright



here is point 1 from that site.. i will read it later and argue against it:




What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

In Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should dissappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."

The message is reiterated Mark 11:24:

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

If God says, "believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," and if we believe in God and his power, then what should happen if we pray to cure cancer tonight? It should be cured. Either that, or God is lying.

In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref]

Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.

We see the same thing over and over again...

In Matthew 18:19 Jesus says:

Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

In James 5:15-16 the Bible says:

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

In Mark 9:23:

All things are possible to him who believes.

In Luke 1:37:

For with God nothing will be impossible.

Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible. Yet, when we pray to eliminate cancer, nothing happens.

And keep in mind that this is Jesus talking here. These are not the words of human beings. These are not the words of "inspired" human beings. These are supposedly the words of God himself, incarnated in a human body. Jesus is supposed to be a perfect, sinless being. And yet, it is obvious that Jesus is lying. What Jesus says is clearly incorrect.


Jesus is supposed to be God. God is supposed to be perfect.
When Jesus speaks, he should speak the truth.
Yet when we look at what Jesus says about prayer,
he is clearly lying.

If you would like additional proof, gather a million faithful believers together into a giant prayer circle. Have them all pray together in Jesus' name that God cures every case of cancer on the planet tomorrow. Pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Now, we certainly have two or more people gathered together, and they have asked in Jesus' name, and we have not one but a million faithful believers who, by definition, have faith and believe. We have fulfilled every one of Jesus' requirements.

Will Jesus answer the prayer now? Of course not. Your prayer will go unanswered, in direct defiance to Jesus' promises in the Bible. In fact, if you pray for anything that is impossible, your prayer will always go unanswered.

If you are an intelligent, rational human being, all of the examples mentioned above show you that the God of the Bible is imaginary. What Jesus says about prayer in the Bible clearly is not true.

In fact, we have ample scientific evidence to demonstrate that the belief in prayer is nothing but pure superstition, as shown in the next proof...

Go to Proof #2 >>>

Understanding the Rationalizations

A favorite Christian rationalization for why God does not answer our prayer to eliminate cancer is because "it would take away free will." The logic: If you pray and God answers your prayer, then God would have revealed himself to you, and you would know that God exists. That would take away your free will to believe in him. Of course, if this is true, then by default all of Jesus' statements about prayer in the Bible are false. It means that God cannot answer any prayer. Also, why is a God who must remain hidden like this incarnating himself and writing the Bible?

If Jesus is God, and if God is perfect, why aren't all of Jesus's verses about prayer true? Was Jesus exagerating? Was he fibbing? If Jesus is perfect, why wouldn't he speak the truth? Why doesn't a prayer to cure cancer worldwide tomorrow work?

Believers have many different ways to explain why all these verses in the Bible do not work, even if you are praying sincerely, unselfishly and non-materialistically, and even if the answer to your prayer would help millions of people and glorify God in the process. They will say things like this:

"You need to understand what Jesus was saying in the context the first century civilization in which he was speaking..."

or:

"When Jesus talked about 'moving a mountain', he was speaking metaphorically. When someone says, 'it is raining cats and dogs,' no one takes him literally. Jesus was using a figure of speech rather than speaking literally..."

or:

God is not a thing. He is a being. He has a will. He has desires. He relates to people. He has personality traits. Prayer is a fancy word for talking to God. God, who knows everything, even before we say it, knows the difference between our thoughts and wishes, and when we are actually addressing him. He hears our prayers and responds. His responses are based on his personal decisions. We cannot predict how he will respond to our prayers... [ref]

The problem is, all of these rationalizations miss two important points:

1. God is supposed to be an all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect being.

2. The statement, "Nothing will be impossible for you", along with the other Bible verses quoted above, are false. The fact is, lots of things are impossible for you.

If a perfect being is going to make statements about how prayer works in the Bible, then three things are certain: 1) He would speak clearly, 2) he would say what he means, and 3) he would speak the truth. That is what "being perfect" is all about. A perfect, all-knowing God would know that people would be reading the Bible 2,000 years later, and therefore he would not use first-century idioms (he would say what he means). He would know that normal people will be reading the Bible and interpreting it in normal ways, so he would speak in such a way as to avoid mis-interpretation (he would speak clearly). He would know that when you say, "Nothing will be impossible for you", that what it means is, "Nothing will be impossible for you" and he would make sure that the statement "Nothing will be impossible for you" is accurate (he would speak the truth). If God says it, it should be true -- otherwise he is not perfect.

Unfortunately, the fact is that thousands of things are impossible for you no matter how much you pray, and no one (including Jesus) has ever moved a mountain.

In order to see the truth, you need to accept the fact that all of the above verses are wrong. The fact is, God does not answer prayers. The reason why God does not answer your prayers is simple: God is imaginary.

God Is Imaginary... that site is a lolfest!

Check out brainisignorant.blogspot.com, it's a refutation of that site, among other things.

Mark wrote:

Internet atheists arguments are so stupid I could refute them in my sleep. Unfortunately, people are stupid enough to believe them, so we should argue against them.

well start arguing then if its so easy

There really isn't much of a point in us arguing against it simply because the vast majority of their arguments have been answered millions of times already. They just don't like the answers that were given to them.

I really love how they claim to be so "logical" and "rational", yet at the same time throw ad hominems and strawman arguments around a LOT. Ad hominems and strawman arguments are ERRORS in logic. One who really is logical and rational would try to avoid doing this as much as possible, but I have yet to see any atheist, agnostic, etc., make any attempts to avoid doing so.

I also love how they complain when they blast us for telling them to put the verses in the textual and historical context they were given. I mean, who else says to do this? Like every biblical scholar on the planet?

It's to the point now that we have answers to all their arguments on record and book because it's been brought up so much. There really isn't a point in us doing so because none of their arguments are new. In fact, in a lot of documentaries and books (the most notable being Zeitgeist), most of their arguments were dismissed as early as the 1850s.

LOGICAL FALLACIES BABY!!!! Appeal to emotions, Appeal to Authority (Obamacare ), and my personal favorit, the creme de la crem: Circular Reasoning. "Unfortunately, the fact is that thousands of things are impossible for you no matter how much you pray, and no one (including Jesus) has ever moved a mountain." Hello..We all know that's what dynamite is for. "The statement, "Nothing will be impossible for you", along with the other Bible verses quoted above, are false. The fact is, lots of things are impossible for you." Okay well if thats true why do they say this before?: "In Mark 9:23:

All things are possible to him who believes.

In Luke 1:37:

For with God nothing will be impossible. " Uh..HELLO. "For with God nothing will be impossible."




And then theres this:

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref]

Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens."


Well duh. You're testing God. "You shall not test the Lord your God."


I love these atheist websites lol. They're helping me do my english assignment on logical fallacies in everyday life.

"Gather a million faithful believers....nothing will happen."

I love how this person thinks that we will simply accept the argument since gathering a million faithful (read: genuine) believers is not exactly feasible. Stupidest argument.

And (s)he totally does not understand the meaning of "asking in Jesus' name."

More to come...

MetLHed4GZus wrote:

Kräg wrote:

Hear another one we shoud fight agenst...

godisimaginary.com

alright



here is point 1 from that site.. i will read it later and argue against it:




What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers.

I just want to tell these people on this site: "God DOES answer prayers - answering doesn't always mean saying YES to your prayer." Imagine if God did say yes when He answered all our prayers! This world would be way more chaotic. Of course, if I told these atheists that, they would just flame back at me with a "oh well that's just self-fulfilling prophecy". -_-

This is an amazing thread, an awesome idea. I'll come back on later with my refutations, etc.

I like TheAmazingAtheist. I disagree with his theological beliefs, of course, but he has a wicked sense of humor and I almost always find his videos entertaining.

"If you would like additional proof, gather a million faithful believers together into a giant prayer circle. Have them all pray together in Jesus' name that God cures every case of cancer on the planet tomorrow. Pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Now, we certainly have two or more people gathered together, and they have asked in Jesus' name, and we have not one but a million faithful believers who, by definition, have faith and believe. We have fulfilled every one of Jesus' requirements."

If you're doing that for any reason but for the glory of God and the kingdom, I can GUARANTEE it will go unanswered. It's no different than for me to ask God for $1,000,000 just because I want to have it.

againsttheantichrist wrote:

"If you would like additional proof, gather a million faithful believers together into a giant prayer circle. Have them all pray together in Jesus' name that God cures every case of cancer on the planet tomorrow. Pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways. Now, we certainly have two or more people gathered together, and they have asked in Jesus' name, and we have not one but a million faithful believers who, by definition, have faith and believe. We have fulfilled every one of Jesus' requirements."

If you're doing that for any reason but for the glory of God and the kingdom, I can GUARANTEE it will go unanswered. It's no different than for me to ask God for $1,000,000 just because I want to have it.

one could easily pray for a cancer cure for the glory of God. and people have.

Is it about man, or about the glory of God? if it's 99.9999999999% about the glory of God and 0.0000000001% about man, that prayer will never be answered.

I like this thread. Been a very very long time since I've posted here at all. Anyways, with the subject at hand, does anybody know a site that debunks this one?

www.exposingchristianity.com

which also derived from this site:

www.joyofsatan.com

I know a lot of it is bull, but I'm still interested in seeing a site that debunks it.

Thanks and much appreciated!

joy of satan and the like are mostly non-factual because its just a religious cult. you cant really debunk a faith based mystic cult. just by its very nature.

mystery wrote:

joy of satan and the like are mostly non-factual because its just a religious cult. you cant really debunk a faith based mystic cult. just by its very nature.

True, but at the same time, the thread was about debunking the anti-Christianity, not necessarily the cult per-say. So, maybe there is no site that directly attacks the site, but what of the claims they make? I do know that can be debunked and disproved, but at the same time though, they do make good points on some points, which I've seen discussed so many times. So, it's moreso anti-anti-christianity than anti-joy of satan that I'm looking for.