I do believe in ghosts or whatever you want to call it, had my own experiences. right here...

I believe that there are angles and demons but it also seems like there is something else. My aunt was in a fight with her former husband once, she was being backed towards the staircase (which would have been a VERY bad fall), and all of the sudden her husband freaked out and left her alone right as she was about to step off the stairs (not noticing). He said latter that he saw my great-grand father standing behind her (and he is Japanese so they talk apparitions very seriously).

To me that seems like it would probably not be a demon, since it saved her, and probably not an angle, because why would an angle come in my great-grandfather's form? I don't know. But that puts me on the fence.

Well, I do not consider myself entitled to have an "opinion" on this...*

But I think one thing that we can find in the teachings of Jesus is not to take death too seriously. Think of the story in which he sees a dead girl and says, "She's only sleeping." So the dead, according to him, are... somewhere, somehow...

One of the greatest Christian writers of all time, George MacDonald, liked to speak of death as a "thin curtain", as something insignificant that we pass through, possibly without ever noticing it... Like falling asleep only to notice that you've been asleep on the next morning.

So if there are ghosts, they are simply existing on the other (and less eventful) side of being... echoes... in a state of sleep... (waiting to sprout into new life like seeds hiding in the soil...?)
It seems doubtful to me that they could ever interfere with what we call reality (or it with them...) - but who knows?

Not to say that their "sleep" can't be filled with dreams...** It's just a hard question to answer... Do the dead "exist" as we define existence? How do we define it? Would you say that you (your consciousness) ARE somewhere when you're sleeping? You're in your bed, physically, and yet somehow far away... and if you're not dreaming, you're somehow not at all...

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*Opinions are too definite for this topic anyway. The topic has to be vague. It's what keeps it interesting... :-)

**And dreams themselves have something strange about them... My wife has been known to dream of things shortly before they happened... It's something deeply rooted in the unconscious. Maybe the dead do in fact influence "reality" in some way that could never become conscious to us. Or maybe they just leave time altogether, so that they could never have the feeling of being "dead NOW"...

the only two ghosts i believe in are.....

and

And the Space Ghost, of course

I have had many experiences with this.

Living in a haunted house for 15 years. And then living in four to five other haunted houses after wards.

If you want stories, just ask.

lord voldemort wrote:

I have had many experiences with this.

Living in a haunted house for 15 years. And then living in four to five other haunted houses after wards.

If you want stories, just ask.

PTMM!

Well, after knowing the Lord and Satan. IMO I've actually started believing the opposite, I think that all paranormal work is by demons, my recent theory is if they ever decide to show themselves they use the form of a human or animal, or use some kind of situation like a death of a person or something like that to cause trouble, to make people think and question scripture, Satan's pretty tricky like that.

Also another thing kinda off topic I been kind of questioning and infatuated with the idea of Aliens and UFO's as being another tool the Devil uses to make people scripture, they come as Demons in Alien disguise remember... Satans tricky. Anyway, that's just a bit of how my mind works and how I think, this is a big universe and God does work in mysterious ways so who knows for sure...

What i have read on aliens, is that they appear different to each country.

In America they are green men, in England they are "Arthurian" in appearance. Blond hair, attractive looking, like how some angels are designed.

Torrente wrote:

lord voldemort wrote:

I have had many experiences with this.

Living in a haunted house for 15 years. And then living in four to five other haunted houses after wards.

If you want stories, just ask.

PTMM!

I assume that means, please tell my man?

One incident was, I was in bed and I felt a heart beat in the bed, it was not mine, because when i moved the sound and feeling was in the same place. I was laying on my back and I felt this poking on the covers. The poking came closer and closer until hit touched my hand. The feeling of it was cold and hard, like a stone touched my hand.

This thing was, I assume, sitting on the head part of the bed, just above my head, and it was leaning over poking the blanket. That is the only way I can explain the position it was in to do that.

I got up and nothing was there.

That is one of many.

Back in 96, 97.. when i was dabbling in Sorcery.. I summoned a Demon unintentionally and had to immediately revert to my Christian upbringing and pray incessantly for it's removal for many hours before it was removed from my house. Tat was also the last time I dabbled in that abomination.


When I was out in the mountains once, as well.. I saw an apparition.. definitely what I would classify as a human ghost and not a demon... walk right in front of my field of view while I was sitting alone at a remote campsite at night... it was seemingly unaware of my presence and just moved in a steady straight line from my right to my left.. and then disappeared.

I also have heard the most peculiar voices and sounds while out in the mountains... when I used to go camping in almost every weekend for a couple years many years ago.

These sounds and voices always reminded me of My local Native American friends here who have told me of the Little People who are usually invisible but sometimes can be seen.. for those who have the gift of seeing into other dimensions. They are described almost exactly as gnomes and or fairies of European folklore are.. and are said by the Natives.. to inhabit certain hills and that they dwell within tunnels and crevices.. in the earth, but wander about outside quite often.

So.. not only do I believe In ghosts, and demons.. but also in Other Dimensional Beings who are neither.. btu whom also reside in this world. I believe we woudl ahve known them before the Fall.. but since the Fall.. lost many of natural abilities.. including the perception of more dimensions that what we currently possess. Such is my theory.

Just as we possess organs like the appendix and uvula in the throat.. that seems to perform no useful purpose in our bodies.. and often causes more harm than good... I believe they were used by Man before the Fall for things that we probably do not possess or are capable of today... as the Degenerate and damned offsrping of the original.

I have never seen anything to convince me of their existence, and I used to believe in them hardcore.

Kamerad Ash wrote:

Back in 96, 97.. when i was dabbling in Sorcery.. I summoned a Demon unintentionally and had to immediately revert to my Christian upbringing and pray incessantly for it's removal for many hours before it was removed from my house. Tat was also the last time I dabbled in that abomination.


When I was out in the mountains once, as well.. I saw an apparition.. definitely what I would classify as a human ghost and not a demon... walk right in front of my field of view while I was sitting alone at a remote campsite at night... it was seemingly unaware of my presence and just moved in a steady straight line from my right to my left.. and then disappeared.

I also have heard the most peculiar voices and sounds while out in the mountains... when I used to go camping in almost every weekend for a couple years many years ago.

These sounds and voices always reminded me of My local Native American friends here who have told me of the Little People who are usually invisible but sometimes can be seen.. for those who have the gift of seeing into other dimensions. They are described almost exactly as gnomes and or fairies of European folklore are.. and are said by the Natives.. to inhabit certain hills and that they dwell within tunnels and crevices.. in the earth, but wander about outside quite often.

So.. not only do I believe In ghosts, and demons.. but also in Other Dimensional Beings who are neither.. btu whom also reside in this world. I believe we woudl ahve known them before the Fall.. but since the Fall.. lost many of natural abilities.. including the perception of more dimensions that what we currently possess. Such is my theory.

Just as we possess organs like the appendix and uvula in the throat.. that seems to perform no useful purpose in our bodies.. and often causes more harm than good... I believe they were used by Man before the Fall for things that we probably do not possess or are capable of today... as the Degenerate and damned offsrping of the original.

I think there is more than we realize and to just label them all angels and demons, limits the possibility of what is really out there.

I have seen shadow things, which are quite creepy to see. They wander just at the edge of your vision and when you move, you see them for a brief moment and they zoom off very fast or they disappear.

olias wrote:

You can't be christian if you believe God would allow the soul of a human to remain here on earth.

Really? Then why does the the Bible teach about all the souls of the dead that await the Judgement and refer to them as being in the earth until that point.. which has not come yet?

Mortificationrulez wrote:

Well, after knowing the Lord and Satan. IMO I've actually started believing the opposite, I think that all paranormal work is by demons, my recent theory is if they ever decide to show themselves they use the form of a human or animal, or use some kind of situation like a death of a person or something like that to cause trouble, to make people think and question scripture, Satan's pretty tricky like that.

Also another thing kinda off topic I been kind of questioning and infatuated with the idea of Aliens and UFO's as being another tool the Devil uses to make people scripture, they come as Demons in Alien disguise remember... Satans tricky. Anyway, that's just a bit of how my mind works and how I think, this is a big universe and God does work in mysterious ways so who knows for sure...

Pretty decent opinion, I share the same belief mate.

I think the only time I witnessed an apparition was in an old house I had, which was quite old and was in fact a church at one time. (200 year old brick building)

I remember having the lights out, it was dark and I thought my lady was there. I was talking to her for about 30 seconds before I realized it wasn't her. She was in fact in bed watching TV.

On a side note, I had been quite intoxicated that day, so who knows how legit that was.

Probably not at all. I was lost and confused in more than one way at that time...
____________________

I'm not sure I buy into the "poltergeist" aspect of ghost-dom. ....the so called true stories with film crews or actors representing them, with books flying off the shelves, people's voices getting deep with inhuman strength. I know I'm not from Missouri, but I'm going to have to see that for myself....
____________________

I certainly believe in UFOs. I look up into the sky, see something flying and I don't know what it is, it's an Unidentified Flying Object. Whether or not its extra terrestrials or anything like that, I don't know.

We live in a big universe. It wouldn't surprise me if God had other intelligent life elsewhere. He's certainly capable of it...

Kamerad Ash wrote:

olias wrote:

You can't be christian if you believe God would allow the soul of a human to remain here on earth.

Really? Then why does the the Bible teach about all the souls of the dead that await the Judgement and refer to them as being in the earth until that point.. which has not come yet?

Ash is right.

the souls do not go to heaven until the resurrection.

Saul called the soul of Samuel up from the grave and his response is classic "Why do you disturb me".

To say that you can not be a christian is a strong statement, can you provide any basis for that claim? I did not realize my soul rested on that claim.

laurenwrites wrote:

I believe that there are angles and demons but it also seems like there is something else. My aunt was in a fight with her former husband once, she was being backed towards the staircase (which would have been a VERY bad fall), and all of the sudden her husband freaked out and left her alone right as she was about to step off the stairs (not noticing). He said latter that he saw my great-grand father standing behind her (and he is Japanese so they talk apparitions very seriously).

To me that seems like it would probably not be a demon, since it saved her, and probably not an angle, because why would an angle come in my great-grandfather's form? I don't know. But that puts me on the fence.

I think that since ghosts of relatives and apparitions mean a lot to Japanese people, then perhaps it really was an angel who appeared as her great-grand-father, in order to effectively freak out the husband. I've heard testimonies of Christians who have seen angels appear as humans and later found out they were angels from God.

Is there any more ghost stories?

I may not believe in ghosts, but the Japanese have the best ghost stories. Anybody ever play the game Fatal Frame?

I LOVE THAT GAME!

For me, they're on a level very slightly more plausible than aliens, and a decent way more believeable than the monster who lurks under my bed at night, or the genie that lives in my toilet.

I've never seen a ghost, and I confess I have trouble believing the stories of people who say they have seen them. I'm like a soft/weak atheist (as opposed to a Dawkins) when it comes to ghosts.

I believe in demonic posession though, mainly because I have to to be a Christian: Jesus dealt with them. It's a stretch of faith for me, that one.

Most people I've asked claim to have seen something. Which is weird; if it's that common, I'd expect there to be videos on youtube. From what I've looked up, it appears to be all a lot of crap to me.

Kamerad Ash wrote:

Back in 96, 97.. when i was dabbling in Sorcery.. I summoned a Demon unintentionally

Did it think it was unintentional? What did it have to say? And what did it look like?


PS A friend of mine - who definitely had a screw loose, btw - would read this book he got out of my old church library, and they sold it at a local Christian bookstore. I don't know if you're familiar with it... if you are, what's your verdict? http://www.amazon.com/He-Came-Set-Captives-Free/dp/0883683237/ref=cm_lmf_tit_2_rlrsrs0

Is it legitimate, or BS? I'm decidedly with the latter opinion. I mean, she writes about how pictures hung on the wall that have eyes on them can be used by demons to spy on you, for crying out loud.

This author goes on about how there are secret covens of satanists around the country, and how she has battled demons, etc.



Had all this stuff about astral projection, bilocation, levitation, etc. It also had pictures by Jack Chick, the author of those tracts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Brown_(Christian_author)

wiremu.white wrote:

For me, they're on a level very slightly more plausible than aliens, and a decent way more believeable than the monster who lurks under my bed at night, or the genie that lives in my toilet.

I've never seen a ghost, and I confess I have trouble believing the stories of people who say they have seen them. I'm like a soft/weak atheist (as opposed to a Dawkins) when it comes to ghosts.

I believe in demonic posession though, mainly because I have to to be a Christian: Jesus dealt with them. It's a stretch of faith for me, that one.

Most people I've asked claim to have seen something. Which is weird; if it's that common, I'd expect there to be videos on youtube. From what I've looked up, it appears to be all a lot of crap to me.

I have had many experiences, and lived in a haunted house for 15 years or so. My accounts have been mostly subjective. Strange feelings of being watched, smells that should not be there, etc, they are harder to capture on video. I have seen one enity,but again, I did not have my video camera ready to record it and follow it.

Simply meaning is, they happen when the happen, and is many cases they are personal experiences and can not be recorded.

If they can be, they would be dismissed.