Our main preaching pastor, Mark Driscoll, recently went to Israel to do some lengthly investigations and take some pictures with some of the staff of Mars Hill church (not with the church's money) as a prelude to launch a 3 year series on the book of Luke that we have been enjoying for about a month now. It has been an honor to be a part of this, since I do work at the church where he preaches live. (the others Mars Hill campuses see a televised verison of the preachings.) The first sermon of this series was very impacting, especially in the last part when the pastor explained to us the reason why Jesus, on the cross, was presented with a vinegar soaked sponge to drink from, on a stick. Here are the gospel verses:

Prophetic: (Psalm 69:21) They gave me poison for food, and for my thirst they gave me sour wine to drink.

Fulfillment in the Gospels

They offered him wine to drink, mixed with gall, but when he tasted it, he would not drink it. (Matt 27:34)

Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it. (Mark 15:23)

Matt 27: 46 - 50
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" And some of the bystanders, hearing it, said, "This man is calling Elijah." And one of them at once ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine, and put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink. But the others said, "Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to save him." And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit. (Almost exactly the wording in the account of Mark)

John 19: 28 - 30
After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), "I thirst."A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It is finished," and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Notice that not only did they give him this sponge on a stick mixed with liquids to drink before he was crucified, but also before he said "it is finished."

Here, pastor Mark explains what is going on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VmyRiBaegE&feature=channel

Pastor Mark has a stick with a sponge on it, similar to the one that was given to Jesus several times. The picture on the powerpoint board is of his children inspecting an ancient public toilet without stalls or toilet paper, and the clip begins with him explaining what some people decided to do to make a profit, and the rest is pretty obvious.

I was present at this sermon, and some people had tears running down their eyes. I was quite shocked. You just had to be there to understand fully. Many people waited a long time before taking communion afterwards, as they were just shocked and repenting. There was a lot of conviction going on, I'm sure of that. In community groups, this was talked about. Now I understand that the people did not give the sponge with the drink to Jesus to somehow comfort him or help ease pain. It was quite the opposite.

That is disgusting. I alway knew by the word Sour Wine or Vinegar that something was wrong with the centurions offering but I had no idea it was one last insult to the world's savior.

Horrible. thanks for posting though, I really needed to know this.

isnt that kinda reading into it?

mystery wrote:

isnt that kinda reading into it?

Well yeah, but that's hardly a bad thing.

LastFirstborn wrote:

mystery wrote:

isnt that kinda reading into it?

Well yeah, but that's hardly a bad thing.

One needs to be careful about reading into Scripture.

This could qualify as a fallacy of sorts--if one finds a certain use for something, that doesn't mean that that is it's only use. I think this is interesting speculation, but it should be acknowledged as such (I still need to watch the video--maybe it was).

Also, i am not aware of any previous historians or commentators who have made the point---
maybe they have, but I would hesitate to assume that a new understanding has been unfolded, as tempting as that can be.

On the other hand, this conjecture is interesting.

graybeardheadbanger

It certainly makes sense. There is quite a lot of artistic and some archaeological evidence from places such as Pompeii and Herculaneum that shows Romans using sponges, vinegar and sour wine for toiletries. Herbs and sweet smelling spices were used as deodorising agents. It certainly makes sense that the soldiers would do something so vile. Can't think of too many worse things to have put in your mouth.

It would be interesting to investigate the early church father's writings-especially the Greek ones, to see if this idea has been written about before. It probably has been written about-just that this may be a rediscovery. Either way it is fascinating.

mystery wrote:

isnt that kinda reading into it?

My thoughts exactly.

Could be true, but who could know? Shouldn't be taught as factual either way.

interesting.