I thought I'd post this old piece I wrote in 2008.. since it seems to relate to the Papacy discussion. and religion..



copyright 2008
Ash Durrance


Christianity vs Religion
-----------------------
Christianity, unlike religion, is based on an actual moment of spiritual
"quickening". An actual earth shattering "rebirth". In other words,
Religion was and is the painting of the thing, Christianity is the
actual thing.


Judaism was the Religion, Christianity is the
point of that religion. (Some
people will always believe that the
point of anything and everything
leads us to Religion, when in fact,
they've got it backwards. ) It
(Christianity) takes man
and his reach for God to a higher level than what mere
Religion can contain or offer.

This doesn't mean that Religion is bad, it's just less than Christianity.

In place of law, Christianity brings us "advice" and "letters too the brethren".

In place of submission to priest hierarchy, Christianity brings us to the
very Spirit of God, the holy spirit.

In place of Servitude, Christianity brings Friendship and to the very Son of God Himself.

In place of a "belief system", Christianity brings Knowing.

If you are comfortable with religion, the old way, then by all means be
comforted in it. But I say that Christianity is no religion at all, it
will take you too close to God for that . Religion is the "painting of
the place", Christianity is the "actual place".

Some people, I believe, will always be savoring the "painting" , even though the real
thing is right beside them.. if they dare jump into it.

Keeping in mind, I have nothing against "religious institution", it is
necessary for those who have have not and may never progress from
beyond a "belief system" and into the Knowing that is available in
Christianity.

Religion points to something that is beyond religion and that is out of it's
grasp...

Just as the "words' of scripture point to something
beyond "written scripture" and out of it's grasp... The Word, Himself.


Passing the "Point" of Dogma and Religion
-------------------------------------------

It seems to me that anyone who is willing to pick up their cross daily and
follow Him, will eventually reach a point in their journey that they
are challenged to leave their dogma on the path behind them.. for they
may find that they have long since passed the need of it. Many will also
, no doubt, never reach this point in
their "journey" upon the
narrow path.

Religion and dogma are necessary and good, in my
opinion. But only in that they are necessary for spiritual "children".
For those who, while still in fallen flesh,
reach a certain level of spiritual maturity, dogma may become, in fact,
a hindrance. To use another analogy, it ( religious dogma) is the
training wheels on the bicycle, you only need it until you suddenly
find that you can ride just find without it .. and actually much
better, at that.

And yet another way too put it would be...Dogma and religion are like acompass.
They show you which way totravel, but once you have
traveled far enough, you may reach a point inwhich your compass no
longer leaves your pocket, because the directionin which you need to
travel is now familiar and certain to you.

Christ is the perfect example of this. He was/is not bound to Dogma, nor
Religion, and at some point, we will be pulled clean out of it as well,
whether you like it or not. I believe it is safe to say that there will
be no no religion if heaven, it is too small to work there.

That being said, I consider it also quite possible that there are many
Christians who are able to "ride without their training wheels" but,
for one reason or another, may never decide it is time to take off them
off.

Try it, I challenge you, if you think you have are ready
for it. Take off your dogma and Become, take off your religion and
simply Know. Mature ever closer into what you are Becoming in Christ.

Kamerad Ash wrote:

I thought I'd post this old piece I wrote a couple years ago.. since it seems to relate to the Papacy discussion. and religion..



copyright
Ash Durrance


Christianity vs Religion
-----------------------
Christianity, unlike religion, is based on an actual moment of spiritual
"quickening". An actual earth shattering "rebirth". In other words,
Religion was and is the painting of the thing, Christianity is the
actual thing.


Judaism was the Religion, Christianity is the
point of that religion. (Some
people will always believe that the
point of anything and everything
leads us to Religion, when in fact,
they've got it backwards. ) It
(Christianity) takes man
and his reach for God to a higher level than what mere
Religion can contain or offer.

This doesn't mean that Religion
is bad, it's just less than Christianity.

In place of
law, Christianity brings us "advice" and "letters too the brethren".

In
place of submission to priest hierarchy, Christianity brings us to the
very Spirit of God, the holy spirit.

In place of Servitude,
Christianity brings Friendship and to the very Son of God Himself.

In place of a "belief system", Christianity brings Knowing.

If you are comfortable with religion, the old way, then by all means be
comforted
in it. But I say that Christianity is no religion at all, it
will
take you too close to God for that . Religion is the "painting of
the
place", Christianity is the "actual place".

Some people, I
believe, will always be savoring the "painting" , even though the real
thing is right beside them.. if they dare jump into it.

Keeping in mind, I have nothing against "religious institution", it is
necessary for those who have have not and may never progress from
beyond a "belief system" and into the Knowing that is available in
Christianity.

Religion points to something that is beyond religion and that is out of it's
grasp...

Just as the "words' of scripture point to something
beyond "written scripture" and out of it's grasp... The Word, Himself.


Passing
the "Point" of Dogma and Religion
-------------------------------------------

It seems to me that anyone who is willing to pick up their cross daily and
follow Him, will eventually reach a point in their journey that they
are challenged to leave their dogma on the path behind them.. for they
may find that they have long since passed the need of it. Many will also
, no doubt, never reach this point in
their "journey" upon the
narrow path.

Religion and dogma are necessary and good, in my
opinion. But only in that they are necessary for spiritual "children".
For those who, while still in fallen flesh,
reach a certain level of
spiritual maturity, dogma may become, in fact,
a hindrance. To use
another analogy, it ( religious dogma) is the
training wheels on the
bicycle, you only need it until you suddenly
find that you can ride
just find without it .. and actually much
better, at that.

And yet another way too put it would be...
Dogma and religion are like a
compass. They show you which way to
travel, but once you have
traveled far enough, you may reach a point in
which your compass no
longer leaves your pocket, because the direction
in which you need to
travel is now familiar and certain to you.

Christ is the perfect example of this. He was/is not bound to Dogma, nor
Religion, and at some point, we will be pulled clean out of it as well,
whether you like it or not. I believe it is safe to say that there will
be no no religion if heaven, it is too small to work there.

That being said, I consider it also quite possible that there are many
Christians who are able to "ride without their training wheels" but,
for one reason or another, may never decide it is time to take off them
off.

Try it, I challenge you, if you think you have are ready
for it. Take off your dogma and Become, take off your religion and
simply Know. Mature ever closer into what you are Becoming in Christ.

interesting read, I'll have to read it a second time later mroe carefully to see if I 100% agree

This is off topic, but did you seriously copyright this?

Did you also copyright the words "acompass", "totravel", "inwhich" and "directionin"?

As for what was wrote, I agree with some of it... I think someone (ok ANYONE) could go through life without dogma or religion and reap the full benefits of spirituality.

Saying Copyright doesn't make it copyrighted.

Depends on how you define religion, but Christianity is a religion.

olias wrote:

Saying Copyright doesn't make it copyrighted.

Oh but it does! I'll show you by copyrighting this thread.

2010, Thomas Eversole, All Rights Reserved.

This is MY thread. -_-

trephining wrote:

Depends on how you define religion, but Christianity is a religion.

The vagueness of words allows us to create new meaning.. even with old words.. if we use them in the right contrasts.


Like when I write Christianity Vs Religion.. we suddenly come up against a need to clarify what are normally very vague concepts.. signified by words that are over-used in the most meaningless of ways.

No offense to anyone, but I cringe when I hear the word religion. To me, religion is a bunch of laws and regulations. Faith and love is what saves us, faith and love is what heals us and faith and love is what Christ taught us. We cannot be saved by laws. There are so many religions out there. If we are believers in Christ and know that He is the one and only God, how can we consider our faith as a religion like the other ones? In our society, it's so easy to see Christianity as a religion because of what we have done to it and how we've used it. I believe that Jesus and religion are two completly different things. We are bonded by spirituality and faith in Jesus Christ. We believe that He is the only way, the beginning and the end. But these are just my opinions.

Kamerad Ash wrote:

The vagueness of words allows us to create new meaning.. even with old words.. if we use them in the right contrasts.


Like when I write Christianity Vs Religion.. we suddenly come up against a need to clarify what are normally very vague concepts.. signified by words that are over-used in the most meaningless of ways.

The vagueness of topics with a combination of old words, new words, big words and small difficult words, allows us to appear smarter than we really are.

For instance, typing "I like pancakes" but misspelling it.
To thine own self be true, Ash.

Mr. Rotout wrote:

I believe that Jesus and religion are two completly different things. .

Interesting point when one considers who the greatest persecutors of Christ were. They were the religious leaders and faithful of his day who persecuted him above all.

Of course even if someone or something is "bigger than religion" you can be assured that people will find a way to fit it into a religion and/or religious confines.

yeah...who needs to doctrine defining what we believe in. I'll just go believe that god is george washington living on the corner of bull and gay, eating pizza, who can save me with his cosmic fart. All that matters is that he will save me riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?

olias wrote:

yeah...who needs to doctrine defining what we believe in. I'll just go believe that god is george washington living on the corner of bull and gay, eating pizza, who can save me with his cosmic fart. All that matters is that he will save me riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?

That brings up a good point.

Religion is absolutely necessary to a certain point.

It teaches you the framework of which one can contemplate spiritual truths.

As I wrote in my piece.. it is like Training Wheels on a bicycle.. it is necessayr and good to help you learn how to ride a bike.. but until you actually take the training wheels off.. your not actually riding the bike the way it is meant to be ridden.

The same is true for Christianity.

Religious dogma is the training wheels.. Christianity is the destination.. the place we want to get too. The dogma is only meant to help us get there. Unfortunately we get it all messed up and believe that Christianity is the Dogma and Religion. That the Bicycle is meant to always have the training wheels on it. That Christianity somehow IS the religion that helped use Get to it. This is a mistake.

Once we learn what a work means, we do not question it's definition when we use it in everyday language.

When we live life as Christians, we cannot simply say "doctrine was important when I was learning, but not that I am a christian, it is of no use."

Kamerad Ash wrote:

Religion is absolutely necessary to a certain point.

Incorrect. Morals are absolutely necessary to a certain point.

olias wrote:

Once we learn what a work means, we do not question it's definition when we use it in everyday language.

When we live life as Christians, we cannot simply say "doctrine was important when I was learning, but not that I am a christian, it is of no use."

That is true.

But Doctrine only takes you so far, for some people it will take them all the way through life.. for others.. it will be left behind, but not abandoned or made of" no use".
Doctrines that are ture remain true.. even when you don't need them anymore.

If I have mastered mulitplication.. that does not mean that multiplication is of nou use.. that means I have mastered multiplication.

Do you thin kGod intends that we will be in heaven.. repeating the Protestant of Catholic Dotrines? No.. of course not.. all doctrines written of men are written so that they may be mastered and then no longer needed. Why teach something that can never be learnt well enough to surpass would has been taught?

We are all at different places in our spiritual walk.

If I do not understand fuly the doctrine of Forigveness.. then that doctrine will remain of the utmost use to me. If i understand fully the doctrine of Forgiveness.. then that doctrine is still of use to me.. but I may even add to it ( become a Theologian ).

Doctrine alone won't get you into heaven, but you still need it to grow spiritually. Otherwise, roots that would otherwise grow deep take hold onto nothing, and the flower of faith withers and dies. It is necessary to understand WHAT we believe and always hold fast to it in order to GROW in our faith. And that is what you are missing from your analysis.