Alright, so I was having a discussion about why homosexuality is evil with a non-christian friend of mine, and I will sum it up for you:

1. Homosexuality is evil because it breaks God's law.
a) So what?
1. God's law is a direct reflection of his holy nature, to break his law is to do something contrary to his nature. This is the essence of what sin is - that which is contrary to his nature.
a) Why is Homosexuality contrary to his nature?


That question I was incapable of answering. Now, what I said was that it is contrary to his nature because homosexuality is unholy where as God is holy. But his holiness is part of his nature... which just leads back to the same question.

If the reason why Homosexuality is sinful is because it is contrary to Gods nature, then why is it contrary to God's nature?

I need help figuring this out so I can give him an answer to this question.

It's pretty simple simple, God created Man and Woman to be married, not man and man. God would have made a man out of Adam if homosexuality was his plan.


1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites

Quote :

God created Man and Woman to be married, not man and man. God would have made a man out of Adam if homosexuality was his plan.

It's not that simple.
Because it all had to do with procreation, they were the first two people on earth and if it would've been 2 guys, mankind couldn't have started to exist, since neither Adam or his male counterpart would've been able to have babies.

Or do you support the 'sex solely for procreational purposes' side?

Homosexuality is sticky topic that surely will end up badly if discussion gets out of control so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

Matt wrote:

Quote :

God created Man and Woman to be married, not man and man. God would have made a man out of Adam if homosexuality was his plan.

It's not that simple.
Because it all had to do with procreation, they were the first two people on earth and if it would've been 2 guys, mankind couldn't have started to exist, since neither Adam or his male counterpart would've been able to have babies.

Or do you support the 'sex solely for procreational purposes' side?

i dont understand how its not that simple, the bible says it plain as day

mazzie wrote:

Homosexuality is sticky topic that surely will end up badly if discussion gets out of control so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

I agree, these are dangerous topics

NapalmDave))) wrote:

Matt wrote:

Quote :

God created Man and Woman to be married, not man and man. God would have made a man out of Adam if homosexuality was his plan.

It's not that simple.
Because it all had to do with procreation, they were the first two people on earth and if it would've been 2 guys, mankind couldn't have started to exist, since neither Adam or his male counterpart would've been able to have babies.

Or do you support the 'sex solely for procreational purposes' side?

i dont understand how its not that simple, the bible says it plain as day

QFT< matt did you read the verse i posted as well?

Kan-o-sushi wrote:

Alright, so I was having a discussion about why homosexuality is evil with a non-christian friend of mine, and I will sum it up for you:

1. Homosexuality is evil because it breaks God's law.
a) So what?
1. God's law is a direct reflection of his holy nature, to break his law is to do something contrary to his nature. This is the essence of what sin is - that which is contrary to his nature.
a) Why is Homosexuality contrary to his nature?


That question I was incapable of answering. Now, what I said was that it is contrary to his nature because homosexuality is unholy where as God is holy. But his holiness is part of his nature... which just leads back to the same question.

If the reason why Homosexuality is sinful is because it is contrary to Gods nature, then why is it contrary to God's nature?

I need help figuring this out so I can give him an answer to this question.

Perhaps you and he do not have the same definition for evil. Most people who do not have a faith based background do not see things the same way as those who do; and have their world view shaped by the culture, and here in the western world that main culture is the entertainment media i.e. movies, television, etc. Ask him how he defines evil, then explain to him what you see evil to be.

Plus you and he may have different definitions on other terms such as nature and God's law.

MetLHed4GZus wrote:

It's pretty simple simple, God created Man and Woman to be married, not man and man. God would have made a man out of Adam if homosexuality was his plan.


1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites

The main point that he was getting across was that a non-Christian friend and he were in this discussion; so quoting scripture is going to mean squat to this person, because if hasn't yet trusted Christ, he's not going to trust holy scripture.

Kan-o-sushi wrote:

Alright, so I was having a discussion about why homosexuality is evil with a non-christian friend of mine, and I will sum it up for you:

1. Homosexuality is evil because it breaks God's law.
a) So what?
1. God's law is a direct reflection of his holy nature, to break his law is to do something contrary to his nature. This is the essence of what sin is - that which is contrary to his nature.
a) Why is Homosexuality contrary to his nature?


That question I was incapable of answering. Now, what I said was that it is contrary to his nature because homosexuality is unholy where as God is holy. But his holiness is part of his nature... which just leads back to the same question.

If the reason why Homosexuality is sinful is because it is contrary to Gods nature, then why is it contrary to God's nature?

I need help figuring this out so I can give him an answer to this question.

There's not much of a reason that homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes as outlined in the bible. Which leads me to believe that it's sort of arbitrary and really not a very important thing in God's eyes. I know i'll get jumped on for saying that....but i just think it was more of a cultural thing at the time the bible was written.

...but really, there's probably no way to win that argument. He'd have to trust in the bible.

Mikey Erasmus wrote:

There's not much of a reason that homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes as outlined in the bible. Which leads me to believe that it's sort of arbitrary and really not a very important thing in God's eyes. I know i'll get jumped on for saying that....but i just think it was more of a cultural thing at the time the bible was written.

I tend to agree with you to some extent.

People blow up certain sins (like homosexuality or premarital sex) and put them on a huge pedestal, compared to other sin (like lying, stealing, ...) while the bible clearly says all sin are equal with the exception of one.

-----------------------

Matt and Dave, what I meant was that you need a woman and man to procreate, and since we all descend from Adam and Eve, there was need for a man and a woman, there was the need for a vagina/womb/ovaries and penis/scrotum to create the children we descend from.

That does not in essence mean that God didn't create 2 men (or 2 women for that matter) in the beginning to show that man and woman are supposed to be together. It means that you need a man and a woman to procreate.

Don't get me wrong though, I don't support the act of sex between 2 people of the same gender.
But I don't condemn the fact men can have a preference towards other men.

I just don't see it as big as a problem as many others do, heck, so many live in sin, why would homosexuality be so much worse than people with a porn addiction, with people who steal, maybe even downloading illegal music (if you support the fact downloading music is illegal, thus stealing, thus sinning).

Btw, all Moabites and Ammonites came forth out of sex between the 2 daughters of Lot and their father (Lot himself), after the destruction of Sodom. And it doesn't say anything about the fact it was something bad, nor did they get punished for it.
Then would you say, that it's ok for daughters to make their fathers drunk and have sex with them in order to procreate, if they cannot find a man for their own? (because they solely did it because they wouldn't be able to find a man, living in a cave).
Because you can say, otherwise God would have provided 2 men for the daughters of Lot, so they wouldn't have to turn to their father to have sex and get pregnant.

Sometimes it's not as simple as you think, the bible on itself isn't that clear on many cases,
of which a whole lot are about sexuality and love.
I know that a man shouldn't have sex with a man, but nowhere it says that a man cannot have feelings for another man, or fall in love with another man.

Kan-o-sushi wrote:

Alright, so I was having a discussion about why homosexuality is evil with a non-christian friend of mine, and I will sum it up for you:

1. Homosexuality is evil because it breaks God's law.
a) So what?
1. God's law is a direct reflection of his holy nature, to break his law is to do something contrary to his nature. This is the essence of what sin is - that which is contrary to his nature.
a) Why is Homosexuality contrary to his nature?


That question I was incapable of answering. Now, what I said was that it is contrary to his nature because homosexuality is unholy where as God is holy. But his holiness is part of his nature... which just leads back to the same question.

If the reason why Homosexuality is sinful is because it is contrary to Gods nature, then why is it contrary to God's nature?

I need help figuring this out so I can give him an answer to this question.

Hmm, that really is a tough one to try to explain to an unbeliever.
An answer like "cuz God said so" wont be enough. But heres an idea....

To me it is similar to when your parents say "Dont do drugs", or "dont talk to strangers", or "dont play in the street". When we are kids we dont know why it is wrong, but all we know is that our parents commanded us NOT to, so we obey them. We may have seen a nice looking stranger who had candy, and it seemed ok, but we still obey our parent's rules even though we dont understand them.

In the say way God commanded us many things, and sometimes it may not seem like some of them are bad things, but we still obey because He has commanded us.

Of course just like our parents rules, God's rules are also in place to protect us.

There should be no need for discussion of homosexuality. It is against Gods law, therefore it is wrong and should not be done. The end.

Horrific Majesty))) wrote:

There should be no need for discussion of homosexuality. It is against Gods law, therefore it is wrong and should not be done. The end.

"it's not that simple"

Mikey Erasmus wrote:

Horrific Majesty))) wrote:

There should be no need for discussion of homosexuality. It is against Gods law, therefore it is wrong and should not be done. The end.

"it's not that simple"

So maybe God is wrong?

Horrific Majesty))) wrote:

Mikey Erasmus wrote:

Horrific Majesty))) wrote:

There should be no need for discussion of homosexuality. It is against Gods law, therefore it is wrong and should not be done. The end.

"it's not that simple"

So maybe God is wrong?

God can never be wrong, because he sets the standard for right and wrong,though he will never do anything that he sets as wrong

Horrific Majesty))) wrote:

Mikey Erasmus wrote:

Horrific Majesty))) wrote:

There should be no need for discussion of homosexuality. It is against Gods law, therefore it is wrong and should not be done. The end.

"it's not that simple"

So maybe God is wrong?

did i say that?

Matt wrote:

Matt and Dave, what I meant was that you need a woman and man to procreate, and since we all descend from Adam and Eve, there was need for a man and a woman, there was the need for a vagina/womb/ovaries and penis/scrotum to create the children we descend from.

Hehehehehehe.... Matt said PENIS...

AND scrotum.....anything goes in europe!

and there's more where that came from

If God is the essence of all that is good, and He has commanded us to abstain from homosexuality, then obviously it means He is against it. Leviticus 18:22 says "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." To me, that seems cut and dried. I realize I'm just a sinner saved by grace, so I obviously have no room to criticize, but the Bible says it clearly more than once that homosexuality is sin. Now, being born w/ a sin nature, the worst homosexual offender and the kid who only ever stole a pack of gum from the corner market are both still going to Hell and are both condemned eternally for their respective sin regardless of the human "emphasis" placed on their particular sin. Ultimately God isn't "playing favorites" when it comes to sin, He's just going to deny anyone who denies Him.

However, I think saying "it's not that simple" just fuzzies the issue - the multiple references to homosexuality being a sin in the Bible seems pretty clear to me. Does that mean those who choose a path of same-sex relations can't be saved? Of course not! God's power is supreme and He can save anyone from that lifestyle (or any other, for that matter). What it means is that homosexuality is a sin and if you're living in unrepentant sin, you're not walking with Him. If you have Christ in you, it's my belief that no matter how long it takes (cold turkey or possibly your whole life), you will have deliverance from your sin. That is the core of the issue, to me.

Well put, Fro, and I actually have to agree with something Mikey said (shocking, I know ) it really *isn't* as simple as "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" because that's not much of an apologetic at all - it's the ultimate non-answer, especially for someone that needs to hear the Christian's worldview articulated in such a way that sets them apart from what a Muslim, a Mormon, or a Flying-Spaghetti-monster adherent might say.

The topic of same sex attraction is an especially loaded topic these days, because *any* denouncement of the practice flies in the face of the "sovereignty of man" that we naturally hold to outside of Christ (ie. "How dare you tell me who I can and can't 'love'? God *is* 'love', right?!") Sometimes the discussion gets caught-up on whether it's a learned-behavior and a conscious lifestyle choice, or something genetic - focusing on such can only further lead to emotional subjectivism (ie "Well, I *know* what I've felt my entire life!"). Truly, it seems the best and only helpful place to go in this kind of a discussion is not "Why Same-sex relations are condemned by the Bible", but going straight to the heart of the matter - our all-encompassing sinful nature and rebellion against God, not because of what we do or think, but because of what we are (children of wrath).

As long as it's just the topic being discussed apart from articulating your worldview, you're not likely to ever get much of anything out of the conversation other than emotional reactions and ad hominem attacks thrown at you for being a bigot and a hatemonger. Our commission is not to call the homosexual to heterosexuality, any more than it is our duty to call the drunkard to sobriety. Such things are outworkings of our salvation - spokes of the wheel, if you will. Such things *do* need to be talked about and understood, but the core cause, the seed of all wisdom, understanding, and sanctification is Christ and His matchless Gospel.

Sorry, didn't mean to wax all theological there, I jsut can't help it sometimes

Shamax wrote:

I actually have to agree with something Mikey said (shocking, I know ) l:

I guess there's a first for everything hahaha.

And Mr. Fro...I agree with what you said about homosexuals not being incapable of being saved unless they're living their life in sin with no repentance. That's exactly how I feel...TO AN EXTENT. There are many many many many people with different habits of different kinds of vice that are, in essence, unrepentant sinners. And if you throw into that equation the amount of inconsequential laws in books of the bible such as Leviticus and Deuteronomy that good Christians are ignoring and have been for years....it leads one to believe that the MAJORITY of Christians are doomed to hell because of their continuous breaking of "God's Law".
So essentially, I think it's just as well for a gay person to love God and be loved back as a person to love shell fish and God at the same time and be loved back.

Also, to clear it up so no one gets me twisted, I do not condone gay relationships or shaping one's life around that sexual preference. I, myself, was a bi-sexual and a Christian for years...but I never ever acted on my urges...I've been liberated from it for a long time now.