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winterband

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PostSubject: Trinity polytheism   Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:55 am

We see many different flavors of trinitarian in the world, and they are certainly "of the world". Some of them will be quite honest regarding their polytheism but others will try to appear to be monotheistic even as they launch into "great swelling words" to try to defend their triunity.

God is not the author of confusion! You cannot be trinitarian and monotheistic at the same time. A brief "one god" disclaimer at the end of a lengthy three person discourse does NOT a monotheist make! If you have three separate persons in a god squad that agree together, how can you even imagine yourself as a monotheist.

Who will be the Bridegroom of the Church? Would it be "god person #1", "god person #2", or "god person #3"? Think about it, sinner friend, your SOUL is at stake here and wicked sly men are making merchandise of your immortal SOUL!

People accuse me of being intolerant. Well I certainly hope I am intolerant towards those who want to destroy the souls of my neighbors!

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

The bride of Christ is the bride of one Husband only. The true bride of Jesus
Christ is the bride of Jesus Only. True monotheists know that Jesus is God the Father manifest in the flesh and not some "second anything". Jesus Christ is the alpha and the omega but He is not "second person" of some Roman god squad.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

The phrase "Who art thou, Lord?" appears as a question only three times in the Holy Bible. The answer is the same each time!

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Acts 22:8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

John 20:26 ¶ And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

That is NOT the religion called the "trinity" regardless of how crafty deceivers try to make it appear so. Notice this next verse that really nails it down that if you believe that Jesus is not the Father, then you really don't know Jesus!

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

I know there are verses that the trinitarians will use to try to justify their polytheism (even as they themselves will so try to deny their polytheism), but if we have a firm knowledge of truth from the Word of God then we will not fall prey to the crafty deceptions of the deceiver.

If you think this is not essential or important, why would Jesus have stated that:

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Though we humans (created in God's image) have body, soul and spirit we are not each "three separate persons". Though God manifested Himself as "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" he is not "three separate persons".

1) God is a Spirit.

John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

2) God is holy.

I Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is] none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.

3) God is a "Holy Spirit".

4) Jesus is the "Spirit of truth"

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

5) Jesus was "dwelling with them" and promised to be "in them".

John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

6) The "comforter" is the "Spirit of Christ"

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

7) The "Spirit of Christ" is the "Holy Spirit" is the "Spirit of Truth"

John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

8) The Spirit of God visited His creation robed in flesh as the "Son".

I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

9) The fullness of God is in Jesus Christ

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

10) Jesus IS the "everlasting Father".

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

11) Those who believe that Jesus is a "separate person" from the "Father" don't really know Jesus at all.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

I hope this helps...

Real Acts 2:38 Christians and Ministers on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=150271834049

Here are some original Christian music videos
(Warning: May be offensive and frustrating to false-christians)

Blame - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuU-BktFtZ0

Jesus Only - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flE-O9eG-L0

No Trinity On Me - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SLrQokwf_M

Hippie On Grandmas Wall - Live At the Vatican?? by WinterBand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmTxOxcdKco

Bro Steve Winter
For Bible doctrine http://www.TheTruthOfTheBible.com
For Christian music http://www.winterband.com
New Christian community http://www.OneLordJesus.com
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:27 pm

Monotheism can still be obtained even if one has many beings.

The way Christianity does it, is that everything results in God the Father.

Christ is in subjection to the Father, when he states "No man comes to the Father but through me" and "I will turn all things back over to the Father".

These wording show that Christ is in submission to the Father, and he is not "Co-equal" with the Father. Thus, we maintain a monotheism. As Paul states that God the Father is the God and Father of Christ. Christ being deity has his own Deity he worships, his Father.

Thus monotheism is maintained.
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:12 pm

lord voldemort wrote:
Monotheism can still be obtained even if one has many beings.

The way Christianity does it, is that everything results in God the Father.

Christ is in subjection to the Father, when he states "No man comes to the Father but through me" and "I will turn all things back over to the Father".

These wording show that Christ is in submission to the Father, and he is not "Co-equal" with the Father. Thus, we maintain a monotheism. As Paul states that God the Father is the God and Father of Christ. Christ being deity has his own Deity he worships, his Father.

Thus monotheism is maintained.
And Winterband is debunked.
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winterband

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:42 am

lord voldemort wrote:
Monotheism can still be obtained even if one has many beings.


Maybe some false-christians have been wallowing with the devil so long that they don't know the meaning of big words like monotheism?

Declaring blatant polytheism to be monotheism is just one more lie, and to be perfectly honest one of the stupidest lies that I have ever heard from any false-christian ever.

There will be no shortage of fools in hell.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
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wiremu.white

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:35 am

winterband wrote:
lord voldemort wrote:
Monotheism can still be obtained even if one has many beings.


Maybe some false-christians have been wallowing with the devil so long that they don't know the meaning of big words like monotheism?

I dunno, but you are sounding quite Islamic to me. Also, doesn't Oneness theology have to commit the heresy of modalism at some point?

How about this:

God is spirit. God is one spirit - monotheism. However spirit and a person aren't the same thing. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all God. They are all the same spirit, they are all God; though different persons. Perhaps the divine persons are like eternal instances of the divine essence.

If I may quote the Westminster Confession (scripture proofs are on the webpage):

Quote :
Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter II, Article III

III. In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.


http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/index.html


Could you please answer the following questions for me? (I got these from CARM: http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/oneness-pentecostal/questions-ask-oneness-pentecostal-believers )

  1. Is Jesus His own Father?

  2. If Jesus' will and the Father's will were identical, then why did Jesus express the desire to escape the cup but resigns Himself not to His own will, but the will of the Father?

  3. Was Jesus praying to Himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?

  4. If Jesus was praying to the divine side of Himself, then isn't He still praying to Himself?

  5. Why was Jesus not saying, "Not My will, but MY will be done?" if there is only one person and one will involved when He was praying in Luke 22:42 & Matt. 26:39.

  6. If baptism is essential for salvation, then what happens to someone who repents of sin, accepts Jesus as Savior, walks across the street to get baptized but is killed by a car. Does he go to heaven or hell?

  7. If he goes to heaven, then baptism isn't a requirement is it?

  8. If he goes to hell, then faith in Christ isn't sufficient to save him is it?

  9. Since the Bible teaches us that Jesus is in bodily form now (Col. 2:9), then how does the Oneness Pentecostal person maintain that God is in the form of the Holy Spirit? Also, when Jesus returns, will He return in His body? Will God's form then revert to the form of the Son at a later date?

  10. If God is only one person, why did Jesus say in John 14:23, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." If God is only one person, why does Jesus say, "we"?

  11. Oneness theology teaches that God was in the mode of the Father in the Old Testament. God was seen in the OT (not as a vision or a dream or an angel in the following verses: Exo. 6:2-3; Gen. 19:24; Num. 12:6-Cool. But, Jesus said no one has seen the Father (John 6:46). If they were seeing God Almighty (Exo. 6:2-3) but it wasn't the Father, then who was it?
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:35 am

i beleive in a two person part, christ, god then the spirit WHICH IS NOT a seperate entity, but gods spirit or christs spirit. i dont beleive in the trinity concept of today
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:38 am

winterband wrote:
lord voldemort wrote:
Monotheism can still be obtained even if one has many beings.


Maybe some false-christians have been wallowing with the devil so long that they don't know the meaning of big words like monotheism?

Declaring blatant polytheism to be monotheism is just one more lie, and to be perfectly honest one of the stupidest lies that I have ever heard from any false-christian ever.

There will be no shortage of fools in hell.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

you are juddeing others according to what you beleive are theological errors and saying it is hell worthy, open your bible and read that you will be judged according to how you judge others, this means, if you say this person is worthy of hell for a doctrinal error, you better hope to the living god your not wrong in some way, or you are damning yourself, im sorry but you are being the fool, im all for discussion, but hell based judgement, not safe dude, not safe, for your sake reconsider.
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:53 am

The "your judging" whine has to be one of the stupidest things that false-christians use to reject any part of the Word of God that exposes them as fake.

I have not judged ANY of the false-christians attacking me here. God judged them before we were born. I am WARNING them. If I wanted them in hell all I have to do is keep quiet or just pretend with them that they are saved.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

CARM is one of the vilest sewers of false-christian polytheism out there, they have a hatred for Jesus Christ that is unmatched. Don' you three-god FCS realize that when you defend your polytheism that you are also ADMITTING your polytheism?

Bro. Winter
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:55 am

In this hour there are many opposing theories by many sincere, honest seekers regarding the identity of God. Some say that God is somehow three separate persons in a trinity but we need to consider the first of all the commandments.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

I know that there are many verses that many good people think teach separate persons in a "god squad" as it were, but we need to regard scripture in light of scripture. We need to respect Jesus in his statement regarding the first of all the commandments.

The identity of the God or gods being worshiped is not some side issue but is of foundational importance to your soul.

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Deuteronomy 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

One key to understanding the identity of God is to understand the simple concepts of flesh and spirit.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Though we humans (created in God's image) have body, soul and spirit we are not each "three separate persons". Though God manifested Himself as "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" he is not "three separate persons". When society finds someone who is three separate persons do they not lock them up or medicate them (for their protection and protection of society). God is NOT three separate persons!

Allow me to submit to you some foundational truths that I will document from scripture and then use to make my point.

1) God is a Spirit.

John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

2) God is holy.

I Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is] none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.

3) God is a "Holy Spirit".

4) Jesus is the "Spirit of truth"

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

5) Jesus was "dwelling with them" and promised to be "in them".

John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

6) The "comforter" is the "Spirit of Christ"

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

7) The "Spirit of Christ" is the "Holy Spirit" is the "Spirit of Truth"

John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the
Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Cool The Spirit of God visited His creation robed in flesh as the "Son".

I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

9) The fullness of God is in Jesus Christ

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

10) Jesus IS the "everlasting Father".

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

11) Those who believe that Jesus is a "separate person" from the "Father" don't really know Jesus at all.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

We know that Peter was given the keys to the kingdom.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Peter used those keys from Jesus to unlock the kingdom of heaven. I really believe that those who think they can reject Peter without rejecting Jesus are not being honest with themselves or others.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Three thousand people baptised in Jesus Name hundreds of years before the trinity baptism was even invented by polytheists.

Is not the safe path the Bible path?

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

I hope this helps...

Real Acts 2:38 Christians and Ministers on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=150271834049

Here are some original Christian music videos
(Warning: May be offensive and frustrating to false-christians)

Blame - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuU-BktFtZ0

Jesus Only - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flE-O9eG-L0

No Trinity On Me - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SLrQokwf_M

Hippie On Grandmas Wall - Live At the Vatican?? by WinterBand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmTxOxcdKco

Bro Steve Winter
For Bible doctrine http://www.TheTruthOfTheBible.com
For Christian music http://www.winterband.com
New Christian community http://www.OneLordJesus.com
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wizardovmetal

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:37 pm

lets have some not out of context biblical proof shall we? and dont bother giving me acts 2:38 because as i said, OUT OF CONTEXT and i know that most of us here agree christ was god in the flesh as well yet an extension of god, born of the flesh. you are attempting to say the same thing we say only twisting it and trying to say christ is the only thing and there is nothing else, and frankly, i think you dont even know what the beleifs of these so called "false christians" are or you would not be saying the crap you are saying and saying we beleive in three totally speperate entitys, as the verse you listed says, christ was god IN FLESH DUH DUH!


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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:55 pm

You know something, why should we listen to you if you can't even properly keep the Oneness Pentacostal teachings either?

I mean: You play Christian rock and Oneness Pentacostals believe that any and all rock is the Devil's Music, even Christian Rock.

And, what's up with that beard? Oneness Pentacostals believe facial hair and long hair are Satanic, so not even you can keep Oneness Pentacostalism alive either. You are supposed to be clean shaven Winter.

You get on to us when we tell you you are judging, but I assume you do this every day in the mirror anyway since you don't accept and keep Oneness Pentacostal teachings either. (Proof is in your guitar and beard) See you in "Hell"! According to Scriptures, everybody is going there Christian and non. Now, Lake of Fire on the otherhand, that is a different story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism#Holiness_standards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:26 pm

winterband wrote:
lord voldemort wrote:
Monotheism can still be obtained even if one has many beings.


Maybe some false-christians have been wallowing with the devil so long that they don't know the meaning of big words like monotheism?

Declaring blatant polytheism to be monotheism is just one more lie, and to be perfectly honest one of the stupidest lies that I have ever heard from any false-christian ever.

There will be no shortage of fools in hell.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

I showed you several verses in the other thread where Christ and God the Father are two beings, not one.

2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I do not lie.

Paul is saying that God the Father is the the God and Father of Lord (God) Jesus Christ.

The word Lord in Greek is kurios used over 6,000 times in the OT to signify God. Christ is God, and his Father is his God.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Christ is the gateway to the Father.
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:10 pm

I know I am saved by the Power of Jesus Christ, I do not need you to tell me I am going to hell because I believe different from you. I know the Power of Christ and God the Father, I have seen their hand in my life, I KNOW they have called me and saved me.

You claim you are "warning" but you are really forming your own opinion and stating that those who do not believe like you are going to hell. That is the bottom line of your thinking. You can hide it behind your self-righteousness all you want, but you are nothing but a legalistic religious fanatic telling people who disagree with your "oneness" that they are wrong and are damned.

considering that most people here have refuted your belief, showing you have committed logical and hermeneutic fallacies, ignoring other parts of the bible that disagree with your conclusion. Then you want us to suspend our judgment and logic and accept yours? I think not. I'd rather take my chances with God as how I am now, then covert to your logic of God.

I find it interesting how God's will matches your own thinking.
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:49 pm

judge not lest you be judged, how you judge others is how you to will be judged. it would be a shame that your held to your stardards of saying i am going to hell for a supposed doctrinal error to find out you had something wrong on that day, and god does not change, he will do as he has said, i will warn you once again, would be a shame to burn on account of stupidity.
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:54 pm

Since we have a good number of false-christians defending their beliefs here I will post this with a question. Do any of you false-christians disagree with any of the points that I have compiled from other false-christians.

Here are some of the beliefs of the average false-christian followed by a Bible verse or two that they need to tear out of their Bible to be comfortable. Of course some of them just get a new re-designed "bible" and that works for them just about as well.

I understand that the polytheistic false-christians like trinitarians have verses that they think support their polytheism. If there weren't verses like that then most of false-christianity would not be trinitarian.

2Pet 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

1. They believe that grace means there is nothing that they need to obey to be saved.

2Thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2. They believe that the Bible teaches a group of god persons but it is still monotheism if the gods get along real well with one another.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

3. They believe that one of their gods sits on the right hand of one of their other gods.

Isa 45:5 ¶I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

4. They believe that the "let us" in Genesis supports their polytheism (but will then immediately deny being polytheistic). Oopsie the next verse says "he created" rather than "they created", but refers to Adam and Eve as "them".

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

5. They claim to be believers while advocating disobediance of what the Apostles preached and practiced, while the Bible is quite clear that a non-obeyer is really a non-believer.

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

6. They show open hatred for the truth and preachers of truth while making great swelling claims about their love of Christ.

Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7. They quote from the epistles to defend their false-christianity in total denial of the fact that the epistles are letters to people who had obeyed Acts 2:38 and were known for obedience.

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

8. They claim to believe on Jesus while rejecting water baptism in the Name of Jesus.

In the Bible people understood that to believe on Jesus included being baptised in Jesus Name.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

9. They teach that someone receives the Holy Ghost when they claim to believe in Jesus.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

10. They believe that some Bible verses are to be chanted rather than obeyed (like Matt 28:19)

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

11. They believe that calling on the Name of the Lord means hollering the word "Jesus". (Their doctrine would automatically save a lot of drunks hugging toilets calling on Jesus and Ralph, eh?)

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

12. They teach that in Acts 2:38 "for the remission of sins" means "because of" rather than for the purpose of.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

13. They think that whatever you believe it is going to be OK because grace means that we don't need to do anything, no salvation plan to obey, nothing notta zip.... (Good thing Noah didn't believe such junk)

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

14. They teach that there are three separate persons in a Roman god squad and that Jesus is just one member.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

15. They teach that Jesus is a second person of a trinity and is not really The Lord of Glory and that Jesus is not really God the Father.

1 Cor 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

16. They teach that it is OK to continue living in diverse sin because it is somehow covered in advance by their claim to believe. Their example is something about how their false preacher puts on his pants or something and sins every day so you should too.

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Pet 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

17. They think that they can be saved without obeying Acts 2:38.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

18. Some of them think that baptism does not mean full immersion and some of the duller ones teach that baptism doesn't even involve water.

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

19. They don't believe that Jesus is really Almighty God.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

20. They believe that idolatry is OK as long as they are sincere and God knows their heart. They just know in their heart that they are saved regardless of what mean old Bible verses say.

Prov 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It would be impossible to address all of the foolishness and error of false-christianity today in one post as they are some busy beavers when it comes to doctrines of devils.

2Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

I hope this helps...

Real Acts 2:38 Christians and Ministers on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=150271834049

Here are some original Christian music videos
(Warning: May be offensive and frustrating to false-christians)

Blame - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuU-BktFtZ0

Jesus Only - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flE-O9eG-L0

No Trinity On Me - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SLrQokwf_M

Hippie On Grandmas Wall - Live At the Vatican?? by WinterBand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmTxOxcdKco

Bro Steve Winter
For Bible doctrine http://www.TheTruthOfTheBible.com
For Christian music http://www.winterband.com
New Christian community http://www.OneLordJesus.com
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MetalMatt

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:03 pm

winterband wrote:
Since we have a good number of false-christians defending their beliefs here I will post this with a question. Do any of you false-christians disagree with any of the points that I have compiled from other false-christians.

Here are some of the beliefs of the average false-christian followed by a Bible verse or two that they need to tear out of their Bible to be comfortable. Of course some of them just get a new re-designed "bible" and that works for them just about as well.

I understand that the polytheistic false-christians like trinitarians have verses that they think support their polytheism. If there weren't verses like that then most of false-christianity would not be trinitarian.

2Pet 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

1. They believe that grace means there is nothing that they need to obey to be saved.

2Thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2. They believe that the Bible teaches a group of god persons but it is still monotheism if the gods get along real well with one another.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

3. They believe that one of their gods sits on the right hand of one of their other gods.

Isa 45:5 ¶I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

4. They believe that the "let us" in Genesis supports their polytheism (but will then immediately deny being polytheistic). Oopsie the next verse says "he created" rather than "they created", but refers to Adam and Eve as "them".

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

5. They claim to be believers while advocating disobediance of what the Apostles preached and practiced, while the Bible is quite clear that a non-obeyer is really a non-believer.

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

6. They show open hatred for the truth and preachers of truth while making great swelling claims about their love of Christ.

Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7. They quote from the epistles to defend their false-christianity in total denial of the fact that the epistles are letters to people who had obeyed Acts 2:38 and were known for obedience.

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

8. They claim to believe on Jesus while rejecting water baptism in the Name of Jesus.

In the Bible people understood that to believe on Jesus included being baptised in Jesus Name.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

9. They teach that someone receives the Holy Ghost when they claim to believe in Jesus.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

10. They believe that some Bible verses are to be chanted rather than obeyed (like Matt 28:19)

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

11. They believe that calling on the Name of the Lord means hollering the word "Jesus". (Their doctrine would automatically save a lot of drunks hugging toilets calling on Jesus and Ralph, eh?)

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

12. They teach that in Acts 2:38 "for the remission of sins" means "because of" rather than for the purpose of.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

13. They think that whatever you believe it is going to be OK because grace means that we don't need to do anything, no salvation plan to obey, nothing notta zip.... (Good thing Noah didn't believe such junk)

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

14. They teach that there are three separate persons in a Roman god squad and that Jesus is just one member.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

15. They teach that Jesus is a second person of a trinity and is not really The Lord of Glory and that Jesus is not really God the Father.

1 Cor 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

16. They teach that it is OK to continue living in diverse sin because it is somehow covered in advance by their claim to believe. Their example is something about how their false preacher puts on his pants or something and sins every day so you should too.

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Pet 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

17. They think that they can be saved without obeying Acts 2:38.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

18. Some of them think that baptism does not mean full immersion and some of the duller ones teach that baptism doesn't even involve water.

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

19. They don't believe that Jesus is really Almighty God.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

20. They believe that idolatry is OK as long as they are sincere and God knows their heart. They just know in their heart that they are saved regardless of what mean old Bible verses say.

Prov 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It would be impossible to address all of the foolishness and error of false-christianity today in one post as they are some busy beavers when it comes to doctrines of devils.

2Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

I hope this helps...

Real Acts 2:38 Christians and Ministers on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=150271834049

Here are some original Christian music videos
(Warning: May be offensive and frustrating to false-christians)

Blame - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuU-BktFtZ0

Jesus Only - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flE-O9eG-L0

No Trinity On Me - by WinterBand A Christian music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SLrQokwf_M

Hippie On Grandmas Wall - Live At the Vatican?? by WinterBand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmTxOxcdKco

Bro Steve Winter
For Bible doctrine http://www.TheTruthOfTheBible.com
For Christian music http://www.winterband.com
New Christian community http://www.OneLordJesus.com
why do you keep calling us false Christians? show us where in the bible does it say if we don't buy into your doctrine we aren't saved?

_________________
Tune in to Warzone Broadcast, every Saturday,6-8 pm EST @ blabberjesusradio.com

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[/quote][17:37:50] Walter Kovacs : if everything in the universe was fudge, evenutally we would be eating our poop[quote]
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:50 pm

You want us to answer your questions, yet you will not respond to any of our questions we give to you, other than you telling us we are "sinners on the way to hell because we are false Christians". I think not.

When Paul gave his faith to Jews and Gentiles, he gave a defense as to why it was logical to accept his point and it left to the logic of his argument that you either accepted it or rejected it.

I have shown many cases in the bible where God and Christ are two beings, distinct from each other, you reject it and continue to peddle your "oneness" and keep calling us "false Christians", yet you do not have the intellect to refute what we say and show us how our interpretation is wrong, but you show out of context verses to show how "Trinity" doctrine is false, yet that was not an issue when the bible was written or the issues that Paul or others addressed. You are adding that into the text.

Natural reading shows that Christ and the Father are two beings, where Christ is in submission to the Father, the bible clearly shows that Christ and the Father sent the HS and it was done in the name of Christ, sent by the Father. Two Gods under the submission of God the Father.

Psa 82:6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 "Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."
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wizardovmetal

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:51 pm

"Since we have a good number of false-christians defending their beliefs here I will post this with a question. Do any of you false-christians disagree with any of the points that I have compiled from other false-christians."

you are practicing modalism, a heresy, you deny the father and the son by denying one of them (cant figure out who you deny, god? christ? scratch )
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:53 pm

Just in case you miss this verse in my passage, here it is by itself:

Psa 82:6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 "Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes."
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:57 pm

wizardovmetal wrote:
"Since we have a good number of false-christians defending their beliefs here I will post this with a question. Do any of you false-christians disagree with any of the points that I have compiled from other false-christians."

you are practicing modalism, a heresy, you deny the father and the son by denying one of them (cant figure out who you deny, god? christ? scratch )

That reminds me:

Winterband your teaching is ANTICHRIST:

1Jn 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
1Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

You deny the Father and Christ, you teach and want us to deny the two Deities, and to do so would make us ANTICHRIST. You are teaching a doctrine that is clearly against the bible and you are using the bible to create your own distortion. You sir are ANTICHRIST, according to the words of John.
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BryneVampyr

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:58 pm

Quote :
why do you keep calling us false Christians? show us where in the bible does it say if we don't buy into your doctrine we aren't saved?



Well...since he believes that you have to be baptized in the name of Jesus...specifically, with the words, "I baptize you in the name of Jesus" spoken...in order to be saved, then if you were baptized with the words, "I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit", then you are not saved. (according to winterband's beliefs).

I would bet that the vast majority of people here were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...so in his eyes, those people are not real Christians.
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:08 pm

Baptism is a form of confession. We have made it more into something ritual. As long as one confesses Christ as Lord, he is saved. So being Baptized in the name of Christ is the same as confessing him as Lord with your mouth.

Which is consistent with the rest of scripture.

Winterband distorts it and says that to be not baptized in the name of Christ only is a distortion of scripture. He has a god that is very legalistic and petty, and wants man to follow the law to the letter or else. The Law has been fulfilled in Christ, Christ satisfies the requirement of the law, so all we have to do is confess and make Christ Lord (God) of our lives.

If God is has petty as Winterband makes God out to be, then I would rather reject God and take my chances else where, because if he is that petty on that issue, what else will he be petty on? Will he hold something else against me, that I messed up on?

Winterbands god has no forgiveness, no compassion on those who may make mistakes on their beliefs of God, due to faulty teaching or misconceptions due to culture. If God can not forgive such things, then he is not God and we need not worry!
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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:19 pm

Baptism is much more than a form of confession. Baptism is God acting upon us through the water and His Word to impart Grace. In Baptism, there is redemption and forgiveness of sins.
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wiremu.white

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:24 pm

BryneVampyr wrote:
Baptism is much more than a form of confession. Baptism is God acting upon us through the water and His Word to impart Grace. In Baptism, there is redemption and forgiveness of sins.


Really? I thought redemption and forgiveness were in Christ's shed blood in the atonement?

Hebrews 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.


God also doesn't regenerate through water, because that would mean that one cannot have a change of heart regarding God and sin, or a trust in Christ's cross work on their behalf, until they've been dunked or sprinkled. That would be silly, not to mention a door to adding in other things afterwards. You end up with a checklist of baptism, penance, confession and so on and you're never quite good enough to have a 'true' faith. The idea is that Jesus is and you trust him instead of your own sincerity or trueness.

Trust Christ, not your faith in Christ.
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MetalMatt

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PostSubject: Re: Trinity polytheism   Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:23 pm

Baptism is not necessary for salvation... but all Christians should be baptized if possible

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