reading half the stuff on the theology board and threads on here
its like....

what?

i dont even understand what i "believe" anymore, and think its so confusing, i don't like feeling like this

That's part of why I gave up Christianity, honestly. There are so many alternate interpretations of the bible that it almost seems impossible to find its true meaning.

People believe different things, that's it. But still we all keep in common something very important: Jesus is Lord, and He saves.

just do what i do, forget about what everyone claims is real, read the bible, and understand that way, to me its pretty simple. i had to withdraw myself from modern interpretations because i knew they werent right. the bible is very clear on things, people seem to think they need to overcomplicate it or add things in just because one verse is taken out of context. when pieced all together collectively, the bible explains itself.

LastFirstborn wrote:

That's part of why I gave up Christianity, honestly.

I'm sorry to hear that, I didn't know.

Quote :

reading half the stuff on the theology board and threads on here
its like....

what?

Tru dat.

To further add on what Wizard is saying, I do honestly believe the reasons why we did and do come to apostasy is due to what kind of Bibles we used. Then, unless you were already taught of the add-ins and forgeries, when you do discover of the Bible forgeries and discover the earlier Scripts don't have them, does show exactly what is going on.

Trust me, I fully understand LastFirstborn and even followed through leaving it for a while.

All I can say though, the Scriptures that helped me turn around was the Sinaiticus and much less, Vaticanus. Why not Vaticanus is because I have yet to find anywhere where you can read it and see it, as opposed to the Sinaiticus. Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are our 2 earliest complete Scriptures ever made (sans the Papyri, but the Papyri aren't complete at all).

http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/

I'm not going to accuse anybody of being false, but one other thing that caused my questioning and eventual progress to where I am at today is simply due to the fact that many preachers do teach traditions over Scripture and use Scripture to support tradition. It should be the exact opposite, but I also feel another reason for this is due to how the churches are so business oriented and put next to no concentration on family or body of believers who gather in His' name. It must be in the special building, not anywhere and everywhere as the Scriptures state. I'm not bashing every church, but explaining what I came from.

When looking here, the majority of people who posted here has either already left it, or temporarily left it and eventually came back.

most of the scriptures have the original concept behind them minus trinity stuff, NO IM NOT ONENESS i just am binitarian, i beleive the spirit is not a seperate entity. the bible alone is pretty accurate for the most part. you can totally destroy heretical beleifs using just the bible, and it certainly wont match with 90% of the worlds theologies.

Hence the wonderful thing about spirituality, and the not so wonderful thing about religion. I prefer to keep my faith simple. I feel you Jim. (not in THAT way, but I know what you're talking about) ^_^

There are a lot of answers in the Bible, and I'm sure we all know quite a few of them. However, I don't believe it's the cure-all book... at least not for me. "Feeling depressed? You need to read 1st Corinthians." - whatever. I took a "Bible as Literature" class in college, and a lot of that book is just.... stuff. I hate to say pointless readings, but that's more or less what a lot of that material is to me.

Point being, I could read the Bible (probably some obscure verses in Malachi or Nahum) every day of my life and still be miserable and make life miserable for others.

Not only that, there are an increasingly growing number of wackos that like to manipulate scripture, and actually make a rather poisonous weapon out of God's word.

Matthew 27:5
So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.
Luke 10:37
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

I could probably throw a bunch of wordy dreck in there to sound really educated, (name some ancient cities, say some really big words - something to offset the comfortable/familiar names of the Bible books mentioned) and actually make it sound like Jesus wants us to hang ourselves. Hell, I might even believe it myself.

I said this at the beginning of my "Bible rant" and I'll say it again. There are a lot of answers in the Bible. To be honest, I probably wouldn't be where I am today without Proverbs.

My faith, aka relationship with God, is much better through prayer and meditation. (those are two different things) Prayer, talking to God, and meditation, listening. ....my prayers used to be a grocery list of things for God to do, and when he's done with that list, I have another. (some relationship! "Do this for me b-word!" was not far off from what I was doing.

Another part of my growing experiences was the whole fox-hole prayers. Basically only praying, turning to God when I was in a jam. (Once again, what a great relationship. "Hey man, get me out of this one I'll never do it again!".)

Now, it's what I can do for God, to know His will for me.... how I can be useful to Him.

Most of my spiritual awakenings have to do with communication with him. A couple have been through readings a.k.a. literature.

Point being, I'm not confused about my beliefs today. Those that over-complicating their faith, I tend to watch just spin and spin into orbit. I make healthy observations, and learn - even if its what not to do.

i agree hguols, it needs to be kept simple and personal, remembering the three most important things, faith, fruit, and love for god and our neighbors.

Death Over Life wrote:

All I can say though, the Scriptures that helped me turn around was the Sinaiticus and much less, Vaticanus. Why not Vaticanus is because I have yet to find anywhere where you can read it and see it, as opposed to the Sinaiticus. Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are our 2 earliest complete Scriptures ever made (sans the Papyri, but the Papyri aren't complete at all).

I'm sorry, I don't even know what the hell that means and I don't find it important at all to my salvation.

wizardovmetal wrote:

most of the scriptures have the original concept behind them minus trinity stuff, NO IM NOT ONENESS i just am binitarian, i beleive the spirit is not a seperate entity. the bible alone is pretty accurate for the most part.

A bini-what? Entity separate who? I'm sorry, I don't even know what the hell that means and I don't find it important at all to my salvation.

wizardovmetal wrote:

i agree hguols, it needs to be kept simple and personal, remembering the three most important things, faith, fruit, and love for god and our neighbors.

There you go! Yay Jonathan!!!

meaning i beleive in the father and the son and the spirit is THEM not a seperate being

wizardovmetal wrote:

meaning i beleive in the father and the son and the spirit is THEM not a seperate being

ok....


...so...

you're saying that Jesus does NOT want me to hang myself?

^_^

no certainly not, this has been my problem with the christian church all along, people dont get it DO NOT HANG YOURSELF ITS NOT WHAT CHRIST WANTS!

Hguols wrote:

Death Over Life wrote:

All I can say though, the Scriptures that helped me turn around was the Sinaiticus and much less, Vaticanus. Why not Vaticanus is because I have yet to find anywhere where you can read it and see it, as opposed to the Sinaiticus. Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are our 2 earliest complete Scriptures ever made (sans the Papyri, but the Papyri aren't complete at all).

I'm sorry, I don't even know what the hell that means and I don't find it important at all to my salvation.

wizardovmetal wrote:

most of the scriptures have the original concept behind them minus trinity stuff, NO IM NOT ONENESS i just am binitarian, i beleive the spirit is not a seperate entity. the bible alone is pretty accurate for the most part.

A bini-what? Entity separate who? I'm sorry, I don't even know what the hell that means and I don't find it important at all to my salvation.

see this is exactly is guys.. more and more confusion. i like what u said Hguols keeping it simple is easier

*Reads all the text*

*HEAD EXPLODES*

LastFirstborn wrote:

That's part of why I gave up Christianity, honestly. There are so many alternate interpretations of the bible that it almost seems impossible to find its true meaning.

This is why it's mandatory to read the Bible ourselves. This way The Holy Spirit can teach us correctly if we seek The Truth with a humble heart. Reading The Word only with our intellect does very little. Bible study must be in conjunction with a prayer relationship with God.

I encourage you to pay little attention to what goes on in theology. In other words, keep an ear open to what others have to say, but make up your mind yourself, with the help of The Holy Ghost, through bible study.

Hguols wrote:

Death Over Life wrote:

All I can say though, the Scriptures that helped me turn around was the Sinaiticus and much less, Vaticanus. Why not Vaticanus is because I have yet to find anywhere where you can read it and see it, as opposed to the Sinaiticus. Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are our 2 earliest complete Scriptures ever made (sans the Papyri, but the Papyri aren't complete at all).

I'm sorry, I don't even know what the hell that means and I don't find it important at all to my salvation.

Sinaiticus is the name of a 4th century Greek and Hebrew Bible. Vaticanus is the name of a 4th century Greek and Hebrew Bible. Both Books were written around the same time. Vatican is called Vatican because it is held at the Vatican library, located in Vatican City.

I don’t know if it is supposed to be a flame or trolling, but hey, I’m interested in learning what I am supposed to believe in. If you don’t find learning about Scriptures to be important, then your choice. You are correct, it isn’t a Salvation issue. Then again, you don’t need the Bible or learning or anything to your Salvation. There have been many early Christians who were saved that never read 1 word out of the Bible.

wizardovmetal wrote:

most of the scriptures have the original concept behind them minus trinity stuff, NO IM NOT ONENESS i just am binitarian, i beleive the spirit is not a seperate entity. the bible alone is pretty accurate for the most part.

A bini-what? Entity separate who? I'm sorry, I don't even know what the hell that means and I don't find it important at all to my salvation.[/quote]

Bi-ni-ty. Sounds like Trinity, but with a B instead of a Tr. Bi means 2. Tri mean 3. Just like the word Triangle for example. Binity means 2 part Godhead which means Father and Son are God but not each other. Trinity means 3 part Godhead which means Father and Son and Holy Spirit are God but not each other. You may not find this knowledge important to salvation, and it is not, but the concept is important if you are a Christian or not. This is why Oneness is refuted. The Scriptures specifically say if you deny The Father and/or the Son as God, you are teaching an anti-Christ teaching. Scriptures have been quoted when discussing Winterband on this.

1 John 2:22-25 (King James Version)

22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Jim wrote:

Hguols wrote:

Death Over Life wrote:

All I can say though, the Scriptures that helped me turn around was the Sinaiticus and much less, Vaticanus. Why not Vaticanus is because I have yet to find anywhere where you can read it and see it, as opposed to the Sinaiticus. Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are our 2 earliest complete Scriptures ever made (sans the Papyri, but the Papyri aren't complete at all).

I'm sorry, I don't even know what the hell that means and I don't find it important at all to my salvation.

wizardovmetal wrote:

most of the scriptures have the original concept behind them minus trinity stuff, NO IM NOT ONENESS i just am binitarian, i beleive the spirit is not a seperate entity. the bible alone is pretty accurate for the most part.

A bini-what? Entity separate who? I'm sorry, I don't even know what the hell that means and I don't find it important at all to my salvation.

see this is exactly is guys.. more and more confusion. i like what u said Hguols keeping it simple is easier

Well, everything I write is what I write in a simplistic manner. What I see myself writing and reading is simple and easy. If this is complicated, then I don’t know what to say to be able to understand other than the word research. Not trying to be rude, but I’m keeping it simple and easy.

Death over Life wrote:

Well, everything I write is what I write in a simplistic manner. What I see myself writing and reading is simple and easy. If this is complicated, then I don’t know what to say to be able to understand other than the word research. Not trying to be rude, but I’m keeping it simple and easy.

before you start calling me dumb or something, let me stop you.

im talking about the fact of all these different terms etc that i've heard of trying to explain something i dont fully understand, so how is that suppose to help?

you can come at me however you want with your giant posts over and over, im sorry im not the "intellect" that you so clearly are...

im a graphic artist, not a theologian

I just read the Scriptures and go off of what God instills in me. While I will agree with some theologians on some matters, and more or less call myself a Trinitarian, I will say that 90 percent of modern theology is something I do not care one bit about.

If you ask God for interpretation of a vague point in the Scriptures, and earnestly seek its meaning, it will come to you. You don't need authors or 'learned' scholars answering for you what the Creator could answer inerrantly.

In fact, I almost see it as a bit weak to base one's majority of spiritual knowledge on theology alone. So many people make theology out to be more important than Christ Himself... and this is heretical.
Around here, modern 'theologians' are studying at the Yale School of Divinity, and will eventually write their papers, essays, and books. However, many of them aren't even saved. Just agnostic or 'spiritual', which isn't enough for me, personally. We also have a church around here with an atheist youth pastor. My point? In a modern age where faith in Christ doesn't matter so much in order to be a theologian, you really need to be careful who you can trust.

All these people's 'doctrinal' debating is senseless, in my opinion. Nobody is ever going to convince an entire denomination that their way of thinking is incorrect.



...The second I get flamed for saying my opinion in this is the second I am going to be gone from here for awhile.

Maybe it's out of context but this versicle just came into my mind

2 Corinthians 10:5

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

I've struggled with Theology before; I've been confussed, anxious and depressed because of this feeling of lack of certainty about faith, God and Christianty. After prayer and help by other fellow Christians, I overcame all this uncertainty I felt. You must realize that the Bible is flawless, it's the holy word of God; all doubts and opposing theories come from the faulty understanding of men, not the nature of God or scripture.

God is love, He's just and He sacrified Himself so everyone can achieve salvation through Jesus; these are the basics you need to know and live in peace with your faith.

Quote :

If you ask God for interpretation of a vague point in the Scriptures, and earnestly seek its meaning, it will come to you. You don't need authors or 'learned' scholars answering for you what the Creator could answer inerrantly.

Exactly. Also according to scripture, the scripture itself is designed to confound the wise while giving understanding to the meek.

I seriously do not come online to gain theological and spiritual advancement... I do that by praying and talking to God, reading the bible myself... going to those I know in person and asking the questions that I need some sort of clarity or answer on.

No wonder you would get confused reading what is on here, its everyones personal views/opinions/spiritual mindset/personal take.... you cannot glean the fullness of God from this site or any website..

We get into little discussions here because thats what people do... but if you wanna find faith... do it earnestly for you and ask those questions from those in your community.

Jim wrote:

Death over Life wrote:

Well, everything I write is what I write in a simplistic manner. What I see myself writing and reading is simple and easy. If this is complicated, then I don’t know what to say to be able to understand other than the word research. Not trying to be rude, but I’m keeping it simple and easy.

before you start calling me dumb or something, let me stop you.

im talking about the fact of all these different terms etc that i've heard of trying to explain something i dont fully understand, so how is that suppose to help?

you can come at me however you want with your giant posts over and over, im sorry im not the "intellect" that you so clearly are...

im a graphic artist, not a theologian

How do I post so that people think I'm NOT insulting them? I had no plans on calling you dumb or anything. I can only express what I see from my eyes. This doesn't make you stupid or anything. All it means is we have a different view of life.

As for the understanding, I can't help you out on that lest you go to details. Trust me, I'm not trying to take anybody's heads off, just trying to help.

The posts, despite them being rants sometimes, are supposed to be here to help and reflect. If there is anything anyone has a problem with, feel free to talk to me about it. I'm not intellect in terms of I know all the answers, but simply, I have seen this and experienced this 1st hand and although it seems I'm doing a bad job of it, I'm trying to show the path that I took that got me out of this, and upon the path it revealed to me a lot of startling information, yet it transformed me.

I'm not intellect and I'm not a theologian. I'm just simply trying to state what I experienced in terms of iron sharpening iron. There is no point in putting anybody down so that is what I'm trying to avoid doing. As for where I gained all this insight, all I really did was read some Scriptures and read some stuff on the internet on a subject. I never went to college, never got into theological discussions or anything of that sort. Religion is a subject that I'm highly interested in and I really research on it.

I apologize for not being as social as the rest of society is. Most of humanity and society makes me sick to my stomach anyways, so I read and research for some of my free time.

therockismighty wrote:

I seriously do not come online to gain theological and spiritual advancement... I do that by praying and talking to God, reading the bible myself... going to those I know in person and asking the questions that I need some sort of clarity or answer on.

No wonder you would get confused reading what is on here, its everyones personal views/opinions/spiritual mindset/personal take.... you cannot glean the fullness of God from this site or any website..

We get into little discussions here because thats what people do... but if you wanna find faith... do it earnestly for you and ask those questions from those in your community.

Not to debunk what has been said, but aren't those from your community also doing nothing but spouting their: personal views/opinions/spiritual mindset/personal take?