Well I noticed that Reformeds had a thread, so why not make one for Pentecostals. Any other peopel here part of the Assemblies of god or any other pentecostal group?

I used to attend a Pentecostal church.

I attend an Assemblies of God church, but have a views different from the church such as stuff dealing with Calvinism and teeny weeny other things.

What?

I believe in predestination and other things...

I also think that Jesus drank real wine, but that he did so with moderation as was God's plan for all of mankind. But that doesn't really matter.

Predestination=Fail.

Oh yeah... I also disagree on the fact that most AG people think that metal is an evil thing.

Im currently attending and involved with an Assemblies Of God church here. Its great. THe people are really great and warm/welcoming kind. Theological wise, I would stand with them in some aspects. Sometimes though, I get worried about the influence of the WoF movement/prosperity gospel in my church. Its not as a whole, but the guy who runs our youth group is very influenced by that and I sometimes feel that it robs the youth out of learning other theological truths that the bible has to offer. Officially, I consider myself a nondenominational christian simply because I don't officially hold to every AG doctrine or idea. I do however believe in the modern use of the gifts of the holy spirit and such yet I feel that the official office of the apostles has closed. Anyways, that's me. I would consider myself charismatic I guess.

Crex218 wrote:

Im currently attending and involved with an Assemblies Of God church here. Its great. THe people are really great and warm/welcoming kind. Theological wise, I would stand with them in some aspects. Sometimes though, I get worried about the influence of the WoF movement/prosperity gospel in my church. Its not as a whole, but the guy who runs our youth group is very influenced by that and I sometimes feel that it robs the youth out of learning other theological truths that the bible has to offer. Officially, I consider myself a nondenominational christian simply because I don't officially hold to every AG doctrine or idea. I do however believe in the modern use of the gifts of the holy spirit and such yet I feel that the official office of the apostles has closed. Anyways, that's me. I would consider myself charismatic I guess.

the porsperity gosple is defintely not a pentecostal thing, but sadly soem churches in all denominations can lean that way

I attended an AoG church for a while as a teenager and went to their local summer camp a couple of years in a row (sort of a Diet Cola version of the movie "Jesus Camp"). My family attended there for about 4 or 5 years before moving-on to a couple of other places - some AoG-affiliated, others were non-denominational (I think one may have even been UPC-affiliated).

That first AoG church was pretty small (maybe 30 total members if you got everyone out of bed on time including their kids). But we made a few really good friends there, and it was my first "big" exposure to the Christian faith. I'd professed Christ at a VBS at a southern Baptist church a couple years earlier, but this was the first place that my parents started going to church with me at.

As for the prosperity gospel, I'd agree that it's not an *AoG* thing, but the soil it found it's deepest rooting in has been distinctly Pentecostal/Charismatic. The prosperity gospel isn't the greatest concern I saw while part of the AoG though (I only really started encountering it when going to "non-denominational" places). The thing that concerned me (and still concerns me) is the heavy leaning towards the most gross excesses of Third Wave Charismaticism.

The thing which strikes me about that is that much of the current crop of "prophetic" personalities grew out of the soil of the "Latter Rain" / "Manifest Sons of God" movement which the AoG loudly condemned as heresy. One need only look at the Elijah List, watch about 5 minutes of GodTV, or even look at people like Mick Bickle (of the International House of Prayer) and you'll see people still proclaiming the same things that were denounced back in the 50's (even if they deny the name "Latter Rain"). Unfortunately most of the people in the pews are unaware of it, and just like back in the 40's and 50's, out of a sincere desire to worship God and operate in the gifts of the Spirit, other things creep through the door largely unnoticed.

I always loved the AoG when they'd stick to their guns and not waver on the essentials of the faith. I just wish all pastors (AoG, Baptist, non-denom, etc) would voice those essentials more often, because it's when people get wrapped-up in following earthly personalities ("apostles", "prophets/esses", even teachers/pastors) rather than the person and work of Christ that people lose their mooring from the faith and are capable of being swept in so many different directions.

All that aside though, I love the zeal and passion for worship in my Pentecostal/Charismatic brothers and sisters

See, a fire-breathing, baby-eating Calvinist can respond in the thread that doesn't directly involve him currently and still be positive, encouraging, largely non-argumentative, and never employ the term "fail" in the discussion! If only we could expect the same

olias wrote:

Predestination=Fail.

Oh, and I do find it slightly humorous that a Roman Catholic pops-in to the Charismatic/Pentecostal thread to take a swipe at the Reformed/Calvinists. Talk about not being able to buy a break!

I still love ya Olias.

Shamax wrote:

olias wrote:

Predestination=Fail.

...Talk about not being able to buy a break!
.

I'm pretty sure I know what you're referencing, correct understanding of history fail.

Mark wrote:

correct understanding of history fail.

You live for this kind of thing, don't you? Out of respect for this thread, I don't want to pollute it with a huge back-and-forth with you over manners, so if you have something positive to contribute to this thread, please offer it. Otherwise, I'll report your troll postings and I'll be adding the first person ever to my ignore list on any message board.

Its a thing we do. We bash them, Bryan threatens to ban us. Repeat.

Shamax wrote:

Mark wrote:

correct understanding of history fail.

You live for this kind of thing, don't you? Out of respect for this thread, I don't want to pollute it with a huge back-and-forth with you over manners, so if you have something positive to contribute to this thread, please offer it. Otherwise, I'll report your troll postings and I'll be adding the first person ever to my ignore list on any message board.

Hate to say it, but Mark has got it right. Just don't report me and add me to any lists for saying so.

Back on topic, please.

I go to an AG church. It is pretty solid. There are some weird random complaints in this thread. Like...

Usvart Jorge wrote:

Oh yeah... I also disagree on the fact that most AG people think that metal is an evil thing.

You do realize that has zero to do with any denomination? That fact, which is in no way factual, is based entirely on your limited experiences and communications with others. Not the stated doctrine of a church. That being said, at my AG church I know a couple dozen people from youth, adults, to pastors who listen to metal or are in metal or hardcore bands.
And it wasn't God's plan for John the Baptist to drink wine, so there goes that... which I also don't believe is a doctrinal issue. I'm not entirely sure on that one. Anyway, challenge how you form your perspectives.

And be nice people.

MetLHed4GZus wrote:

Crex218 wrote:

Im currently attending and involved with an Assemblies Of God church here. Its great. THe people are really great and warm/welcoming kind. Theological wise, I would stand with them in some aspects. Sometimes though, I get worried about the influence of the WoF movement/prosperity gospel in my church. Its not as a whole, but the guy who runs our youth group is very influenced by that and I sometimes feel that it robs the youth out of learning other theological truths that the bible has to offer. Officially, I consider myself a nondenominational christian simply because I don't officially hold to every AG doctrine or idea. I do however believe in the modern use of the gifts of the holy spirit and such yet I feel that the official office of the apostles has closed. Anyways, that's me. I would consider myself charismatic I guess.

the porsperity gosple is defintely not a pentecostal thing, but sadly soem churches in all denominations can lean that way

I agree, the Prosperity Gospel has crept into the church in general. Now, I agree God does bless and in addition, everything and i mean EVERYTHING we have is a blessing from God. Our family, our livelihoods, our breathe, is all because of the grace of God. But, I dont believe God is an ATM machine at all. Its sad that we've given into materialism and compromised truth of "things" in the disguise of "give to the church and God will bless you". And with that, I disagree with most if not all of the WoF movement as well. Latter rain and all. I do believe however in healing, that God still heals and does miracles. Maybe not regrowing limbs, although i believe that is possible since jesus said, " with a faith like a mustard seed, you can tell this mountain to move and it will fall into the sea" or something of the sort. But, alot of WoF junk is ridiculous.

Crex218 wrote:

MetLHed4GZus wrote:

Crex218 wrote:

Im currently attending and involved with an Assemblies Of God church here. Its great. THe people are really great and warm/welcoming kind. Theological wise, I would stand with them in some aspects. Sometimes though, I get worried about the influence of the WoF movement/prosperity gospel in my church. Its not as a whole, but the guy who runs our youth group is very influenced by that and I sometimes feel that it robs the youth out of learning other theological truths that the bible has to offer. Officially, I consider myself a nondenominational christian simply because I don't officially hold to every AG doctrine or idea. I do however believe in the modern use of the gifts of the holy spirit and such yet I feel that the official office of the apostles has closed. Anyways, that's me. I would consider myself charismatic I guess.

the porsperity gosple is defintely not a pentecostal thing, but sadly soem churches in all denominations can lean that way

I agree, the Prosperity Gospel has crept into the church in general. Now, I agree God does bless and in addition, everything and i mean EVERYTHING we have is a blessing from God. Our family, our livelihoods, our breathe, is all because of the grace of God. But, I dont believe God is an ATM machine at all. Its sad that we've given into materialism and compromised truth of "things" in the disguise of "give to the church and God will bless you". And with that, I disagree with most if not all of the WoF movement as well. Latter rain and all. I do believe however in healing, that God still heals and does miracles. Maybe not regrowing limbs, although i believe that is possible since jesus said, " with a faith like a mustard seed, you can tell this mountain to move and it will fall into the sea" or something of the sort. But, alot of WoF junk is ridiculous.

there's one verse that debunks WoF movement completely, "it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"

I used to be pentecostal. I attended an AoG church for several years. I have also attended a four square church, and various independent pentacostal churches.

I go to a church that doesn't really have a specific denomination, but the worship service is very pentecostal-like, which is why I love the church so much. I agree about the Prosperity Gospel, I don't like it, but the pastor seems to love it. It's annoying, but the pastor is just a guy, and he has his beliefs just like the rest of us.

I'm not actually a member, but I've been going for a little over a year. Really thinking about joining for real soon.

laurenwrites wrote:

I go to a church that doesn't really have a specific denomination, but the worship service is very pentecostal-like, which is why I love the church so much. I agree about the Prosperity Gospel, I don't like it, but the pastor seems to love it. It's annoying, but the pastor is just a guy, and he has his beliefs just like the rest of us.

I'm not actually a member, but I've been going for a little over a year. Really thinking about joining for real soon.

Yeah, its usually the really awesome churches that end up having the prosperity gospel influence their theology. My church is awesome and the people are awesome and I haven't heard anything inherently unbiblical but when he gets going on the whole" God wants you to be happy and prosperous "I usually tune out. I mean, its not completely horrible, but it then becomes a sermon on how to use God and put him into your debt so oyu can get out of yours, or how how turn God into your supernatural ATM machine. To me, that infringes on the sovereignty of God.

I used to attend various "Pentecostal" churches for about 15/16 years. During that time, I rededicated my life to God about 6 times and I've been convered once :p

Thankfully, God has actually saved me from the theologically debased Pentecostal church. I am now in a pretty sweet as Baptist/Reformed Church in my town with good fellowship, good Biblical and solid doctrine and yeah, the worship is good too.

I actually felt kinda dead and I saw a lot of "spiritual religiousity" while attending Pentecostal churches. If you are not speaking in tounges, you do not have the "holy spirit", which of course is a load of horse turd on bread, because in Galatians 3:2, it clearly states that you've received the Holy Spirit (which is the 3rd and equally important member of the Trinity, not a feeling nor existentianal experience) through Faith. Nowhere does it claim that speaking in tounges is a sign you have it. Just one of the bullcrap things I have witnessed and actually participated in back in my Pentecostal days.

Another thing: Quite contrary to believe around here, the "prosperity" Gospel did start in Pentecostal churches Oh, which is another reason why I don't attend Pentecostal churches anymore. People like Osteen, Meyers, Hinn, Jakes etc are absolutely EVERYWHERE! I can't bear to see/hear/witness their absolute tripe.

Oh, I am not bitter against Pentecostals, I just don't like most churches. I've been to many. 15 years a Pentecostal. Been hurt, been crushed and forced to run a spiritual religous treadmill. No thanks. I go where God loves my weak self

Wilkins wrote:

I actually felt kinda dead and I saw a lot of "spiritual religiousity" while attending Pentecostal churches. If you are not speaking in tounges, you do not have the "holy spirit", which of course is a load of horse turd on bread, because in Galatians 3:2, it clearly states that you've received the Holy Spirit (which is the 3rd and equally important member of the Trinity, not a feeling nor existentianal experience) through Faith. Nowhere does it claim that speaking in tounges is a sign you have it. Just one of the bullcrap things I have witnessed and actually participated in back in my Pentecostal days.

Another thing: Quite contrary to believe around here, the "prosperity" Gospel did start in Pentecostal churches Oh, which is another reason why I don't attend Pentecostal churches anymore. People like Osteen, Meyers, Hinn, Jakes etc are absolutely EVERYWHERE! I can't bear to see/hear/witness their absolute tripe.

I'm sorry but this is a complete misunderstanding of pentecostal doctrine

MetLHed4GZus wrote:

Wilkins wrote:

I actually felt kinda dead and I saw a lot of "spiritual religiousity" while attending Pentecostal churches. If you are not speaking in tounges, you do not have the "holy spirit", which of course is a load of horse turd on bread, because in Galatians 3:2, it clearly states that you've received the Holy Spirit (which is the 3rd and equally important member of the Trinity, not a feeling nor existentianal experience) through Faith. Nowhere does it claim that speaking in tounges is a sign you have it. Just one of the bullcrap things I have witnessed and actually participated in back in my Pentecostal days.

Another thing: Quite contrary to believe around here, the "prosperity" Gospel did start in Pentecostal churches Oh, which is another reason why I don't attend Pentecostal churches anymore. People like Osteen, Meyers, Hinn, Jakes etc are absolutely EVERYWHERE! I can't bear to see/hear/witness their absolute tripe.

I'm sorry but this is a complete misunderstanding of pentecostal doctrine

I think he would know Matt. He was in Pentecostal churches longer than you have been alive, and he's had an extra few years to look back at their theology. You're really not in much of a position to make protests.

Also. don't just point out that someone "misunderstood" something and not give evidence as to how or why they are wrong.

All you have you do Matt is either back up what you say, or you shouldn't post. It's common courtesy to back up what you say within a debate. If one is to choose not to do so, their opinion would not carry as much weight because it looks more like they're attacking someone because they called another person out on something then saying "I respect your views, but there are a few things that there is a bit of a confusion on. First of all..." and explaining the errors and how they are wrong.

~~~~~~

While I'm at it, I need to make a grievance that applies to a lot of people that post in the theology forum. I've been seeing it lately, I see it trying to slip up in this thread, and I'm getting tired of looking at it every other post on this forum.

The theology forum is a debate forum. All threads in this forum are debate threads. If you are not willing to evaluate all sides of an argument from a neutral perspective, you have no business being here.

Usvart Jorge wrote:

I believe in predestination and other things...

I also think that Jesus drank real wine, but that he did so with moderation as was God's plan for all of mankind. But that doesn't really matter.

if i understand predestination correctly, then i firmly stand against the idea

i also beleive there is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation, this means not getting drunk and being responsible and not making a habit out of it, although i personally chose not to drink ever. one thing pentecostals beleive in is that women should wear dresses and have hair down to their back and men should have short hair and wear pants etc. while there is absolutley nothing wrong with this idea, i do not beleive women and men need to be doing these things, paul originially was saying these things because of the crazy cross-dressing, bisexual, homo-sexual, behaviors of the newly converted pagans, i do beleive that men need to dress and look masculine and women need to be feminine, but what defines those two things has nothing to do with dresses and hair at all, unless men are doing things like putting on makeup and intentionally looking like women or women are doing vice-versa.