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Matt



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PostSubject: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:20 pm

Something has been playing in my mind for a while now,
I'm not sure if this is the same in America, as Western Europe can be really different.

It just seems to me that Christianity is dead in the younger circles,
it's not about thinking it's ridiculous, or knowing why they believe or not,
when I talk about my faith to friends of which about 70% are no christian (nor have ever been), it just seems they never thought about it, but don't feel like they need to, they don't say it's bad or stupid, it just doesn't interest anyone.
They see no reason to think about it.
And when I go to see someone talk about faith, I see NO people of my age (and this is no exaggeration, I really was the only person between 15 and 30)

I do feel the same at times, as honestly, I feel like it's not the most important thing in my life,
yet I do believe in God.

There are a lot of christians of my age around, but 95% of those are raised christians, my "problem" (probably more a question than a problem though) is that I don't see people of our age being interested in it if they aren't raised with it.

Any thoughts?
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MetalMatt

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:23 pm

yeah it seems people don't take any interest, and that there only beliefs are what is fed to them by the media and school, they never will take the time to look into it themselves.

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:24 pm

Well, for that particular age groupe, it's not too surprising. The real question is will they still feel the same when they have kids.

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TheBeastSlayer

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:26 pm

Yah excactly.
Although, I have met a few who actually do wanna learn their stuff..buyt theyre not cristians..which is interesting.
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:03 pm

I feel this is the more ominous problem then outright militant atheism. How can you fight a force than seems to be merely indifferent to what you have to say?
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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:04 pm

It seems to me that people who were not indoctrinated with Christianity at a young age are often more interested in just living life than pondering where life came from.
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Jim

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:41 pm

LastFirstborn wrote:
It seems to me that people who were not indoctrinated with Christianity at a young age are often more interested in just living life than pondering where life came from.

a few of my old christain friends who were brought up with it, are jealous that they havent had the same experiences that lets say a non-christian.
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vaterflaumig

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:14 pm

Almost all of my friends don't care that much about religion at all, and my best friend whom I thought was really firm in his faith has abandoned it. Although, I actually was a major factor in my best friend's unbelief. I must admit, most of the time I feel myself pulling away from it, but I just can't help but find it hard to become enthusiastic about Christianity anymore. I don't really understand why everyone seems to be leaving Christianity, it seems to be just as public, if not more than when I was a child.


is it just me or does this post read like a jumbled bit of random thoughts?
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:20 pm

why this need to always be jumping joy enthusiastic all the time about christianity?
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vaterflaumig

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:25 pm

olias wrote:
why this need to always be jumping joy enthusiastic all the time about christianity?


Well, what I mean is that I find it very hard to want to do anything regarding Christianity sometimes. There are days where I feel it as a burden to pray every day, or read the bible consistently. Most of the time I don't want to go to church even though it often makes me feel better when I do.

A lot of the time I feel like it is just a burden for me, and it really makes me feel guilty because I know that it shouldn't be that way.
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:42 pm

I don't really feel like doing those things most of the time. But it never really affects my belief in God. Maybe my standing as a Christian isn't so great. But I never really have any doubts about his existence.
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vaterflaumig

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:51 pm

Well, I was taught that God is supposed to be the focal point of everything that we do, and we are supposed to pray and read the bible everyday. I feel guilty when I don't live up to those expectations because those commands come straight from scripture. But, I can't help but feel suffocated some times when I think about all of the things that I am supposed to take pleasure in when I don't.
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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:55 pm

Yeah, I was the same way back when I was a Christian. Plus, there was only so much of being told that I needed to "repent of my carnal heart" whenever I was more interested in having fun than reading the Bible/praying that I could take before I wanted to punch somebody.
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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:10 am

LastFirstborn wrote:
Yeah, I was the same way back when I was a Christian. Plus, there was only so much of being told that I needed to "repent of my carnal heart" whenever I was more interested in having fun than reading the Bible/praying that I could take before I wanted to punch somebody.

I know how you felt then. Except most of the time when I am having fun, I feel guilty about it because I am not praying or spending enough time reading.
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Kamerad Ash

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:12 am

Yea.. I have noticed it as well. I would say in this area. western europe and teh US are the same. ( that being said different areas of the US are liek different countries too, in comparison). .... but in Southern California it is the same among the youth as your describe in Western Europa.

but thus it is our jobs as Christians.. to be used by God in whatever way we can to communicate his message to the spiritually deaf, blind and imprisoned
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BryneVampyr

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:15 am

vaterflaumig wrote:
Well, I was taught that God is supposed to be the focal point of everything that we do, and we are supposed to pray and read the bible everyday. I feel guilty when I don't live up to those expectations because those commands come straight from scripture. But, I can't help but feel suffocated some times when I think about all of the things that I am supposed to take pleasure in when I don't.

While it is certainly a good thing to read the Bible daily, it shouldn't be made into a rule that one must follow in order to really be a Christian...that turns it into legalism...and leads to unnecessary guilt if you miss a day...I don't think it is a sin to not read the Bible every single day. I think we need to read the Bible to nourish and strengthen our faith...but when it becomes just another rule to follow, then it just becomes a box to check off, and we don't get as much out of it as we might otherwise.

Same with prayer. Prayer should be a natural part of our daily walk...not a daily chore that we need to make sure we get done. Scheduled prayer time is great...but prayer can be done in other ways, too. I pray spontaneously throughout the day, but I don't have a certain block of time that I put aside for prayer each day.
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vaterflaumig

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:23 am

BryneVampyr wrote:
vaterflaumig wrote:
Well, I was taught that God is supposed to be the focal point of everything that we do, and we are supposed to pray and read the bible everyday. I feel guilty when I don't live up to those expectations because those commands come straight from scripture. But, I can't help but feel suffocated some times when I think about all of the things that I am supposed to take pleasure in when I don't.

While it is certainly a good thing to read the Bible daily, it shouldn't be made into a rule that one must follow in order to really be a Christian...that turns it into legalism...and leads to unnecessary guilt if you miss a day...I don't think it is a sin to not read the Bible every single day. I think we need to read the Bible to nourish and strengthen our faith...but when it becomes just another rule to follow, then it just becomes a box to check off, and we don't get as much out of it as we might otherwise.

Same with prayer. Prayer should be a natural part of our daily walk...not a daily chore that we need to make sure we get done. Scheduled prayer time is great...but prayer can be done in other ways, too. I pray spontaneously throughout the day, but I don't have a certain block of time that I put aside for prayer each day.

I completely agree with you.
But I still manage to feel like I am not giving God enough, which may be true, but I don't know what to do.
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Hguols

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:42 am

Jim wrote:
LastFirstborn wrote:
It seems to me that people who were not indoctrinated with Christianity at a young age are often more interested in just living life than pondering where life came from.

a few of my old christain friends who were brought up with it, are jealous that they havent had the same experiences that lets say a non-christian.

This is me COMPLETELY. I grew up in a Christian bubble, and I felt like I wasn't normal, and that I was missing out on quite a few things. I finally had enough, and turned into a drunk, slut, junkie, thief and a bully in a short period of time.

While the wages of sin is death, I managed a healthy dose that just really REALLY hurt a lot before I actually died.

Pain is a great motivator though. I actually had to have quite a bit of it before I took my life, my spirituality, my God seriously. Now I have a new freedom and a new happiness, and I realize that "normal" is not something I can attain - it is a cycle on a washing machine. ...and I'm ok with that today.

Perhaps some of these indifferent people will be the same way - where they'll have some life changing experience that will boot them up to a spiritual level.

Sometimes it takes that for certain people.
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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:46 am

vaterflaumig wrote:
BryneVampyr wrote:
vaterflaumig wrote:
Well, I was taught that God is supposed to be the focal point of everything that we do, and we are supposed to pray and read the bible everyday. I feel guilty when I don't live up to those expectations because those commands come straight from scripture. But, I can't help but feel suffocated some times when I think about all of the things that I am supposed to take pleasure in when I don't.

While it is certainly a good thing to read the Bible daily, it shouldn't be made into a rule that one must follow in order to really be a Christian...that turns it into legalism...and leads to unnecessary guilt if you miss a day...I don't think it is a sin to not read the Bible every single day. I think we need to read the Bible to nourish and strengthen our faith...but when it becomes just another rule to follow, then it just becomes a box to check off, and we don't get as much out of it as we might otherwise.

Same with prayer. Prayer should be a natural part of our daily walk...not a daily chore that we need to make sure we get done. Scheduled prayer time is great...but prayer can be done in other ways, too. I pray spontaneously throughout the day, but I don't have a certain block of time that I put aside for prayer each day.

I completely agree with you.
But I still manage to feel like I am not giving God enough, which may be true, but I don't know what to do.

But that's the point.. you cannot give God enough. If you strive to get God's acceptance by doing stuff for him, then that's religion, not Christianity. God knows you cannot measure up to his standards and that you cannot do enough for him, and that's why he sent his Son to do it all on your behalf, including death on the cross.

Also, just like you, early in my Christian life I was also taught that God should be the center of everything I do. But I was always confused.. what about God should be the center? Bible? Prayer? Fellowship with other Christians? Serving others?

I would encourage you to focus on the One Thing about God that is most important, and that is the gospel. As Paul said, "For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified" (1 Corinthians 2:2) Meditate on the gospel and the cross. A book that has helped me do this is "Living the Cross-Centered Life" by C.J. Mahaney. It's not very long. Once you have a better grasp of the gospel, you'll realize just how much God loves you and then things like Bible reading and prayer will come naturally, because you'll love getting to know God! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:51 am

You need to come to the Great South land and come to my church, the majority are youth and we get more young people coming and becoming interested.... and saved.

They preach, lead, run groups etc etc....half have not been raised Christian and have been through alot.

Yes this world is turning from God and lots aren't interested... but many are out there, hungry and hurt.... and need to see Jesus and then get to know Him.

Its warfare and its in the spirit world, time to get moving if you ain't already.

Its up to you to take your stand on the Word and get out there and pray for those around you, or just shrug your shoulders.

Its not dying, people are starving for something... and its God, not religion or fake crap thats been twisted by man.
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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:56 am

vaterflaumig wrote:
BryneVampyr wrote:
vaterflaumig wrote:
Well, I was taught that God is supposed to be the focal point of everything that we do, and we are supposed to pray and read the bible everyday. I feel guilty when I don't live up to those expectations because those commands come straight from scripture. But, I can't help but feel suffocated some times when I think about all of the things that I am supposed to take pleasure in when I don't.

While it is certainly a good thing to read the Bible daily, it shouldn't be made into a rule that one must follow in order to really be a Christian...that turns it into legalism...and leads to unnecessary guilt if you miss a day...I don't think it is a sin to not read the Bible every single day. I think we need to read the Bible to nourish and strengthen our faith...but when it becomes just another rule to follow, then it just becomes a box to check off, and we don't get as much out of it as we might otherwise.

Same with prayer. Prayer should be a natural part of our daily walk...not a daily chore that we need to make sure we get done. Scheduled prayer time is great...but prayer can be done in other ways, too. I pray spontaneously throughout the day, but I don't have a certain block of time that I put aside for prayer each day.

I completely agree with you.
But I still manage to feel like I am not giving God enough, which may be true, but I don't know what to do.

You know what its kinda funny, but im the complete opposite to this, i always felt/feel that i was doing all this stuff (not works) and not getting anything back. (help, peace, comfort)
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:00 pm

Christianity, especially protestantism is heading towards its own demise.

The superficial and oversimplification of the message has made protestantism very shallow. With its appeal to society and gimmicks, few see a difference. They have been unable to to demonstrate a solid belief system that answers questions and show God as able to fulfill the needs in life. With "All you need is Jesus" and say this prayer and you are saved, has demeaned Christianity and many have left to find spirituality in other faiths.

With some applying an anti-intellectualism or an anti-emotionalism and never combining them into an intellectual and emotional experience, we are left with nothing that appeals to the human psyche. We are both intellectual and emotional, when both are denied for simplicity, there is no wonder why people are leaving for Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other cults, they have a connection to "god" that Christianity, especially protestantism has lost.

Many protestants are moving toward liturgical Christianity, Lutheranism to Catholicism and Orthodoxy in America, because they appeal to the intellect and emotion by the liturgy. Protestantism is unable to match on a popular level what these have been able to produce, C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, C.K. Chesterton, J.K. Rowlins, etc. while Protestants are only able to produce the crap of Left behind.

That goes to show there is no intellect in Protestantism appealing to the masses. When Protestant want to appeal to it, they go to Catholic or Orthodox sources first.
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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:50 pm

lord voldemort wrote:
Christianity, especially protestantism is heading towards its own demise.

The superficial and oversimplification of the message has made protestantism very shallow. With its appeal to society and gimmicks, few see a difference. They have been unable to to demonstrate a solid belief system that answers questions and show God as able to fulfill the needs in life. With "All you need is Jesus" and say this prayer and you are saved, has demeaned Christianity and many have left to find spirituality in other faiths.

With some applying an anti-intellectualism or an anti-emotionalism and never combining them into an intellectual and emotional experience, we are left with nothing that appeals to the human psyche. We are both intellectual and emotional, when both are denied for simplicity, there is no wonder why people are leaving for Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other cults, they have a connection to "god" that Christianity, especially protestantism has lost.

Many protestants are moving toward liturgical Christianity, Lutheranism to Catholicism and Orthodoxy in America, because they appeal to the intellect and emotion by the liturgy. Protestantism is unable to match on a popular level what these have been able to produce, C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, C.K. Chesterton, J.K. Rowlins, etc. while Protestants are only able to produce the crap of Left behind.

That goes to show there is no intellect in Protestantism appealing to the masses. When Protestant want to appeal to it, they go to Catholic or Orthodox sources first.

I think it's true that most of Protestantism fail to balance intellectualism and emotionalism as you said.. but I think one group that does this well are the Reformed Charismatics. Yeah, almost an oxymoron I know. They strive to understand doctrine deeply and intellectually but remain charismatic at the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:53 pm

...then there are people like me who have to keep their intellect and emotions in check because of other factors. For instance, I'm an addict. Sure, I haven't been an active addict for a while, but those chemicals never entered my body because they knocked me down and forced their way down my throat or into my lungs.

A fraction of my drinking and using problems do stem from my thinking and emotional problems, which are more like obsessing and freaking out. I'm not expecting everyone to understand if you haven't gone through the same experiences, but thinking too much and getting too emotionally involved IN ANYTHING has been a lot of trouble for me.

Now, I do intellectualize, and do express my emotions, but I certainly don't get carried away with it anymore. I inventory what's really important, and make a conscious decision not to get involved in what isn't. Church/religious politics don't carry weight with faith in action, in my book.

My Christian experience has been not only more pleasant, but more productive whenever I keep it simple.

Trust God
Clean House
Help Others

...that's my faith in a nutshell.

It really does work for me, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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JeffdlS

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PostSubject: Re: Death of Christianity?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:06 pm

While it may seem like all Protestant churches are the same, I have to say that it isn't true. There are plenty of churches that are not the next Saddleback Church. Their members do not rely on the latest Creflo Dollar seminar for their studies.

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