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 Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:40 pm

this discussion has gotten very strange.
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Kheiron

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:42 pm

Yeah, I'm really not sure what just happened.
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:49 pm

*sigh* I suppose /thread then?
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Kheiron

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:55 pm

Yeah. This topic is kind of horse anyways
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:16 pm

agreed. What do we know anyway? We aren't scientists or theologians here.
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Kheiron

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:40 pm

Doubly agreed.
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Exquisite Corpse

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:48 am

As of now, I'm a theistic evolutionist, although we will never know (for now) truly how God created (unless the Holy Spirit tells us for sure, or something). I am open to whatever, as despite being an evolutionist, that does not mean I deny God's power and that He could have made everything in the snap of a finger. I just don't think that the 7 days were literal, for many different reasons. Plus, there has been enough proof about evolution.

To me, evolution makes much more sense than Intelligent Design, as ID is more of a "God of the gaps" thing. Some things that ID used to back up their views has become proved by evolution (almost in a Occam's razor manner). If one looks at all the evidence present in evolution, they'll see how old the Earth really is, that macroevolution makes sense to an extent. As of now, I don't believe evolution is 100% right, but that it has much more concrete truths than other views. Also, why would the 6/7 days be 24-hour literal Earth days, why would God be bound to create in the time frame of the Earth's spinning? Plus apparently, the original word for "day" in Genesis was also used for "day" in terms of an era. Like "back in my day", but longer, etc. Anyways, I don't think that the Bible disproves evolution, nor that evolution disproves God (if evolution is indeed real, that doesn't mean we must adapt to an atheistic viewpoint, as a lot of atheists tell us Christians)

I think that it obviously wasn't Genesis' point to be some sort of scientific textbook. Its point is that God created everything, regardless of whether it took 6-7 literal Earth days (which doesn't really make sense anyways, due to evidence, but is still possible considering how powerful God is) or thousands, millions, or billions of years until this point. God is good, God created us and loves us, and we fell, cutting off being able to be one with Him. Hence, Jesus! Yay.

I don't see why it is incompatible to be a conservative, "fundamental" Christian and to also believe in a lot of science (I don't mean as in 'fundie", but that I believe in the fundamentals of Christianity, and is quite conservative; meaning, that just because I believe God created everything by making evolution doesn't mean I must be some liberal).

I could list several reasons why my stance is towards theistic evolution, but do not want to debate on here.
Since this IS a dead horse topic, I won't list all the proof I've found/read (would make this a HUGE post).
If anyone wants to know why I believe evolution is most likely how God created us, shoot me a PM!!!
And/or, go read books on evolution, theistic evolution by Christians, geology, biology and especially, genetics! And despite not agreeing 100% with him, I highly recommend you read The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, by Francis Collins (a Christian and theistic evolutionist who was the head of the Human Genome Project). Or C.S. Lewis' writings.

God bless,

-Celine


Last edited by Exquisite Corpse on Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:57 pm; edited 4 times in total
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ELAN

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:49 am

Exquisite Corpse wrote:
I'm a theistic evolutionist.

'Isms in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an ism.'
-Ferris Bueller.
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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:15 am

You're a nonismist. Razz
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Vigilance Saints Arise

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:47 pm

You could throw paint at a canvas for a million years
and you would't get the Mona Lisa.
She is a direct deliberate creative act.

However, Jackson Pollack spent a career smearing
paint on a canvas. He's worth a million.

You ever look up Painters on the internet?

Some just get stuck on the idea that we are
just like Apes nothing more.

Give a Chimpanzee a million years
and see what it becomes.
Then give Beyonce
a million years and see what she becomes.

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb
I knew you."
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Exquisite Corpse

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:05 pm

I believe that evolution wasn't formed that way, by putting a bunch of stuff in a melting pot to see what it becomes. I personally believe that it WAS a deliberate, creative act, just over a long time, and that God may have created us by evolution (natural selection, adaptation, etc). I think it's a possibility, and that God was in control of it the whole time; hence, a deliberate, creative act. I just don't want to think in a box. It may seem inconceivable to us why or how God could have deliberately created us through evolution, but I won't let my little limited human mind keep me from believing that was possible.

Anyways, I don't want to debate. I respect people's beliefs, and won't go against you if you are a young earth creationist or anything. I used to be a big young earth creationist anyways! What matters is our faith in Christ, our sincerity in our walk with Him. We don't need to figure out how God created everything in order to be saved. I was just merely listing my beliefs and stances, knowing that I could very well be wrong Smile.

We as brothers and sisters in Christ may not agree on these little details, but we are one body in Christ, His Church and Bride, and that's what matters.
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:03 pm

It is our future, and not the past that matters. Smile
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Exquisite Corpse

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:10 am

Yup, exactly.
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wiremu.white

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:47 pm

I'm not real clued up on science and didnt do so well at school, but doesn't evolution rely on chance or luck, or similar ideas?

What if you don't believe in chance? What determines what something will evolve into or where it will go?

"The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord."


Why would God use evolution, when he's made creatures to reproduce after their own kind?


Last edited by wiremu.white on Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wiremu.white

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:57 pm

olias wrote:
Because animals don't just rapidly evolve from one to the other.

How rapid is rapid? What is this idea of 'punctuated equilibrium' all about?
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Vigilance Saints Arise

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:21 pm

If there ever was a time when all things were "absolutly still"
there would be no motion today.
God is the prime mover that allways moved, and will allways move us. His children.
The Earth revolves on it's axis.
The building your in is crumbling to the ground.
Your heart is beating and will one day stop.
We are awaiting the ressurection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
Yet, your Spirit moves on to God from whence it came.
Our future is Heaven on Earth. Paradise.
Therefore we are living Saints forever!
In Christ. Amen

With all the disasters around the world
we must say "I come to serve."
A light in the darkness. A darkness that
did not overcome it. "We all shine on
like the moon and the stars and the sun."
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MetalMatt

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:27 pm

8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.




Just thought I'd throw that out there. If there was evolution, that that commandment makes absolutely no sense.

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Exquisite Corpse

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:26 pm

Oh guys, my dad in law showed me this. It sounds a little far-fetched (I don't believe it as of now), but it is interesting nonetheless:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7143844201875642538#docid=3513702563171292183

http://www.aish.com/print/?contentID=48951136&section=/ci/sam
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:23 am

Totally off topic, but your username, celine...I love that song.
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Exquisite Corpse

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:04 pm

Haha, thanks Smile I had gotten it from the art-form, but yeah, that is an awesome song as well.
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Kamerad Ash

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:36 pm

The title of this thread doesn't make any sense.

There really is no antagonism between theistic evolution and intelligent design.

I mean, the "modern social Leader" of Darwinian evolution, Richard Dawkins, is not even a Theist and Believes in the possibility of Intelligent Design.. he believes that quite possibly advanced alien beings seeded life on this planet. That is just as much Intelligent Desgin as Creationism.

What woudl eb antagonistic is Atheist Evolution vs Theistic design... and even then there are grey areas.


"Theistic Evoltuion already imply's Intelligent Design.. because you believe God "Directed" darwinian evolution.

The confusion here is teh false premise that Intellignet design denotes Creationism by deafult. It does not. Complete Atheists believ ein Intelligent Design... as well as every other theological spectrum.. you just hace to believe that life shows signs of being designed ... engineered... desgined.. etc... which implies intelligence behind it all.
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