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Kheiron

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:15 pm

mazzie wrote:
Kheiron wrote:
I've kind of given up on deciding which one I think is true. I think about it like this; was I there? No. Is there absolutely solid evidence for EITHER idea? No. Does it ultimately effect my belief of faith in God? No.

But whatever. Just my 0.02


Completely agreed.

I'm glad I'm not alone Smile
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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:25 pm

NorthernAsh wrote:
two words: Ben Stein
one word follow up: Expelled

Go watch how science [funded by government money no less] ridicules, insults and discredits ANY PROFESSOR who believes in intelligent design in any way, shape or form.

I liken any and all evolutionists to being true misanthropes because you really have to truly hate humanity to believe in evolution of any kind. That means just what it says too.

Theonymic wrote:
MetLHed4GZus wrote:


and prove that all fossils are transitional
Because it's rather difficult to differentiate at exactly what point a new species arises. It's not like a line of descendancy is at species A for a time, and then species B for a time, and then at species C for a time, etc. It's rather a continual, gradual process by which these changes occur. A T-rex at one point of the Cretaceous period would not be the same as a T-Rex one million years later.

Tell me please, why the Webster's definition of EVOLUTION is "a constant state of change" and regarding evolution in Webster's it simply means "a theory of life" or something to that extent......but why mans definition in SCIENCE is so drastically different and holds zero basis in actual reality??

How come this factual question is always asked to evolutionists and always evaded with some retarded run around having to do with time, space, matter, banging stuff and the progress of a species?

u mad brah?
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mystery

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:57 am

Celtic_Christian wrote:
For those here that stated they believe in theistic evolution, I would like any of you to back that belief up with sound scripture. As a creationist, I pretty much can with the first chapter of Genesis being a big one. Any cross references throughotu the Bible are listed on the bottom of the page.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NASB

There is still a debate amongst learned scientists about this topic. Everyone on both sides have the same exact evidence, but they come to different conclusions. Darwinist evolution and intelligent design are all based on faith. And that faith is informed by your paradigm and world view. If your world view is from the perspective of Scripture, then you will look at the evidence and apply faith and come to one conclusion, but if your world view is based on humanistic ideals to the exclusion of a Creator, you are likely to come to a different conclusion especially if your goal is to disprove a Creator.

Theistic evolution assumes there was death, sickness, and decay prior to the fall of man in Genesis 3. And scripture says that it was the fall of man that brought all death into God's creation and put creation under a curse that includes sickness, decay, and entropy.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%203&version=NASB

As Christians, we must decide weather or not we will submit to what is written in Scripture and allow that to inform our understanding of His Creation and of this universe. Thiis does not mean we dismiss the Scientific Method, which is merely a method of observation and study. Our conclusions must be based not only on the evidence, but also from our perspective and what we are told in Scripture. These things do not contradict one another and neither are they mutually exclusive. What we are told in Scripture are one more set of facts that must be applied before reaching our conclusions.


you are so silly if you think there is actual scientific debate about evolution. every bit of physical evidence points towards it.
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:14 pm

Celtic_Christian wrote:
For those here that stated they believe in theistic evolution, I would like any of you to back that belief up with sound scripture. As a creationist, I pretty much can with the first chapter of Genesis being a big one. Any cross references throughotu the Bible are listed on the bottom of the page.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NASB

There is still a debate amongst learned scientists about this topic. Everyone on both sides have the same exact evidence, but they come to different conclusions. Darwinist evolution and intelligent design are all based on faith. And that faith is informed by your paradigm and world view. If your world view is from the perspective of Scripture, then you will look at the evidence and apply faith and come to one conclusion, but if your world view is based on humanistic ideals to the exclusion of a Creator, you are likely to come to a different conclusion especially if your goal is to disprove a Creator.

Theistic evolution assumes there was death, sickness, and decay prior to the fall of man in Genesis 3. And scripture says that it was the fall of man that brought all death into God's creation and put creation under a curse that includes sickness, decay, and entropy.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%203&version=NASB

As Christians, we must decide weather or not we will submit to what is written in Scripture and allow that to inform our understanding of His Creation and of this universe. Thiis does not mean we dismiss the Scientific Method, which is merely a method of observation and study. Our conclusions must be based not only on the evidence, but also from our perspective and what we are told in Scripture. These things do not contradict one another and neither are they mutually exclusive. What we are told in Scripture are one more set of facts that must be applied before reaching our conclusions.

Creationism is anti-christian because it is anti-science. Science does not disagree with God, seeing as how he created physical laws that dictate nature. Creationist claims fall under the slightest scrutiny.
Hasn't it occured to you that the authors of the various books of the bible weren't scientists and that the bible was not intended as a scientific text.


Last edited by olias on Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:20 pm

NorthernAsh wrote:
two words: Ben Stein
one word follow up: Expelled

Go watch how science [funded by government money no less] ridicules, insults and discredits ANY PROFESSOR who believes in intelligent design in any way, shape or form.

I liken any and all evolutionists to being true misanthropes because you really have to truly hate humanity to believe in evolution of any kind. That means just what it says too.
That's quite a supposition. I believe in evolution, therefore I am a misanthrope? And the movie expelled dealt more with the political side of the scientific community then whether or not creationism/ID is factually tenable. I agree there needs to be a debate, but don't act like all the evidence is just government conspiracy trying to cover up the truth.
NorthernAsh wrote:

Theonymic wrote:
MetLHed4GZus wrote:


and prove that all fossils are transitional
Because it's rather difficult to differentiate at exactly what point a new species arises. It's not like a line of descendancy is at species A for a time, and then species B for a time, and then at species C for a time, etc. It's rather a continual, gradual process by which these changes occur. A T-rex at one point of the Cretaceous period would not be the same as a T-Rex one million years later.

Tell me please, why the Webster's definition of EVOLUTION is "a constant state of change" and regarding evolution in Webster's it simply means "a theory of life" or something to that extent......but why mans definition in SCIENCE is so drastically different and holds zero basis in actual reality??

How come this factual question is always asked to evolutionists and always evaded with some retarded run around having to do with time, space, matter, banging stuff and the progress of a species?

That retarded run around you are referring too is what is called a presentation of the facts. Just because you don't want to take the time to actually process them is your own fault. Unfortunately this method does not count as winning a debate.
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Vigilance Saints Arise

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:20 pm

Origins: There is a first nesessary cause that was caused by no other.
We call Him God.

From the Alpha Sentory Galaxy the Earth is a very tiny little light.
The Expanding Universe goes on forever. How small does it get?
And how large does it get? It's relative...

Cause and effect as aplied to human beings:
You can throw paint at a canvas for a million years, and you will never
get the Mona Lisa. She is a direct, intentional, loving, creative act.

Perfection: Give an ape a million years and see what it becomes.
Now, give the Blessed Mother of Christ all Eternity, and see what she
becomes. Jesus would not let his Mother come from a damn howling ape!

In the begining God created Man in His own image. In the Devine Image
He created them Male and Female. The family genealogy is listed in the
new testement. As in the old testement are the names of a thousand children
born of Adam and Eve.

God provides beautiful and delicious fruit trees and vegitables, with their seed in it.
We also cooked and ate all kinds of clean animals thankfully to God. The Earth dosen't just have life but it has abundant life.

We are created in the Image and likeness of God, with Free will, Intellect, bodily supplty. This means our bodys would never die and we would do as we pleased.
Free will is another aspect of God's children. Free choice between good and evil.
The choices we make directly influence the quality of our days.
We have all been called to be great Saints.

Some say Our first parents were more advanced than we are today.
That things have been going down hill ever since.
They lived 900 years and their minds and bodys were created directly by God.
The first Man and first Woman were strong and healthy.

How do you know Adam and Eve when you get to Heaven?
They don't have belly buttons. No parents.

That throws the ape man idea out the window.
Remember the Devi's temptation. And that he doesn't want you to believe that the story of original sin is true history. The Devil wants you to believe that he
doesn't exist. Thus giving death in all types of sins. Show me your God!

Our first Parents fell into original sin and died. In time they were redeemed by the blood of Christ. This means they would have lived forever
with God's Children and the works of their hands. We had high tech inventions very quickly.

Creative acts: Children do good works, and have fun with the Arts and Crafts.
Man's creative potential seems limitness. Before you is fire and water. Whichever
you choose stretch forth your hand, that you shall recieve.

God, the Father of Christ is the first cause that was, is, and will allways be
a Devine Being! Creator of Heaven and Earth.
We have Heaven here on Earth to do our part.

"Cain, If you do good you will prosper as Able has. But if not,
the Devil is waiting for you to destroy you!"

Vigilance Saints Arise


Last edited by Vigilance Saints Arise on Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:45 am; edited 3 times in total
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MetalMatt

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:16 pm

Vigilance Saints Arise wrote:
Origins: There is a first nesessary cause that was caused by no other.
We call Him God.

From the Alpha Sentory Galaxy the Earth is a tiny little light.
The Expanding Universe goes on forever. How small does it get?
And how large does it get? It's relative...

Cause and effect as aplied to human beings:
You can throw paint at a canvas for a million years, and you will never
get the Mona Lisa. She is a direct, intentional, loving, creative act.

Perfection: Give an ape a million years and see what it becomes.
Now, give the Blessed Mother of Christ all Eternity, and see what she
becomes. Jesus would not let his Mother come from a damn howling ape!

In the begining God created Man in His own image. In the Devine Image
He created them Male and Female. The family genealogy is listed in the
new testement. As in the old testement the names of thousand children
born of Adam and Eve.
We are created in the Image and likeness of God, with Free will, Intellect, bodily supplty. This means our bodys would never die we'd do as we please.

Our Parents fell into original sin. In time they were redeemed by Christ. This means they would have lived forever
with God's Children and the works of their hands. We had tech inventions very quickly.

Creative acts: Children do good works, and have fun with the Arts and Crafts.
Man's creative potential seems limitness. Before you is fire and water. Whichever
you choose streach forth your hand. That you shall recieve.

God, the Father of Christ is the first cause that was, is, and will allways be.
A Devine Being! Creator of Heaven and Earth.

"Cain, If you do good you will prosper as Able has. But if not,
the Devil is waiting for you to destroy you!"

Vigilance Saints Arise
For once I totaly understand what you posted...and 100% agree

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[/quote][17:37:50] Walter Kovacs : if everything in the universe was fudge, evenutally we would be eating our poop[quote]
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MetalMatt

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:18 pm

mystery wrote:
Celtic_Christian wrote:
For those here that stated they believe in theistic evolution, I would like any of you to back that belief up with sound scripture. As a creationist, I pretty much can with the first chapter of Genesis being a big one. Any cross references throughotu the Bible are listed on the bottom of the page.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1&version=NASB

There is still a debate amongst learned scientists about this topic. Everyone on both sides have the same exact evidence, but they come to different conclusions. Darwinist evolution and intelligent design are all based on faith. And that faith is informed by your paradigm and world view. If your world view is from the perspective of Scripture, then you will look at the evidence and apply faith and come to one conclusion, but if your world view is based on humanistic ideals to the exclusion of a Creator, you are likely to come to a different conclusion especially if your goal is to disprove a Creator.

Theistic evolution assumes there was death, sickness, and decay prior to the fall of man in Genesis 3. And scripture says that it was the fall of man that brought all death into God's creation and put creation under a curse that includes sickness, decay, and entropy.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%203&version=NASB

As Christians, we must decide weather or not we will submit to what is written in Scripture and allow that to inform our understanding of His Creation and of this universe. Thiis does not mean we dismiss the Scientific Method, which is merely a method of observation and study. Our conclusions must be based not only on the evidence, but also from our perspective and what we are told in Scripture. These things do not contradict one another and neither are they mutually exclusive. What we are told in Scripture are one more set of facts that must be applied before reaching our conclusions.


you are so silly if you think there is actual scientific debate about evolution. every bit of physical evidence points towards it.
Evidence.....r u serious? Look at evidence again. The "evidence they try to use" has also hads to be proven. Evolutionists try to prove their theory..with other theories..which proves absolutely nothingt. So no physical evidence points to it... "physical theories" point to a theory

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[/quote][17:37:50] Walter Kovacs : if everything in the universe was fudge, evenutally we would be eating our poop[quote]
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Mark

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:24 pm

No serious scientist denies evolution.
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MetalMatt

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:25 pm

Mark wrote:
No serious scientist denies evolution.
Maybe Mark, but evolution isn't science in any, way, shape or form, so what does that have to do with anything?

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[/quote][17:37:50] Walter Kovacs : if everything in the universe was fudge, evenutally we would be eating our poop[quote]


Last edited by MetLHed4GZus on Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:27 pm

ROFL

Do you have any idea how stupid you're making yourself look?
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MetalMatt

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:28 pm

Mark wrote:
ROFL
I have failed to see the humour in that.


How am i making myself look stupid?

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[/quote][17:37:50] Walter Kovacs : if everything in the universe was fudge, evenutally we would be eating our poop[quote]
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:34 pm

because you said that scientist proove evolution by using theories. That shows that you have no understanding whatsoever of the scientific method and you would do well to know what scientists ACTUALLY do before throwing out platitudes.
Now, by theory, do you mean inference and indirect observation?
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MetalMatt

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:45 pm

olias wrote:
because you said that scientist proove evolution by using theories. That shows that you have no understanding whatsoever of the scientific method and you would do well to know what scientists ACTUALLY do before throwing out platitudes.
Now, by theory, do you mean inference and indirect observation?
Let's put it this way, they try to prove an animal evolved by finsding skeletons or fossils...but tehy have never proved that the fossil was linked to that animal

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[/quote][17:37:50] Walter Kovacs : if everything in the universe was fudge, evenutally we would be eating our poop[quote]
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:05 pm

Because animals don't just rapidly evolve from one to the other. As theonymic pointed out. Also, there are transitional fossils, and they aren't even that rare. There are many transitional fossils. The only way that the claim of their absence may be remotely justified, aside from ignoring the evidence completely, is to redefine "transitional" as referring to a fossil that is a direct ancestor of one organism and a direct descendant of another. However, direct lineages are not required; they could not be verified even if found. What a transitional fossil is, in keeping with what the theory of evolution predicts, is a fossil that shows a mosaic of features from an older and more recent organism.

Here are some transitional fossils,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBuPHbuI9WM&feature=channel_page
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Vigilance Saints Arise

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:41 am

Motion,
I will have you know that to begin with:

If there was ever a time when everything was absolutely still,
there would be no Motion today.


Last edited by Vigilance Saints Arise on Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vigilance Saints Arise

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:45 am

Motion,
I will have you know that to begin with:

If there was ever a time when everything was absolutely still,
there would be no Motion today.

Therefore,
there is and will always be perpetual Motion.

God is Omnipotent, and all Powerful.
What existed before the big bang? Spirit Life.

The God of the past, present, and future.

Your heart is beating, the wind is blowing,
we know not where it comes, or where
it is going.

The breath of life is within you.
God breathed life into man's nostrills and
he became a living being.

The buildings around us are slowly
crumbling to the ground. As the great citys
of Antiquity, this too will come to pass.

Our generation too left it's mark.
The future relys on the faithful.
The Children of our life to come.

Vigilance Saints Arise


Last edited by Vigilance Saints Arise on Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:08 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : 2 copies)
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mystery

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:19 pm

wow nice science
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:26 pm

err... what are you getting at VSA? i'm a little confused about that one.
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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:56 pm

olias wrote:
err... what are you getting at VSA? i'm a little confused about that one.

I hardly ever understand what he's getting at.
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Vigilance Saints Arise

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:03 am

olias wrote:
err... what are you getting at VSA? i'm a little confused about that one.

Origins:
Man was created in the Image and likness of God. In the devine Image He created them.
Male and Female He created them.
Go, be fruitful and multiply!
Thou shalt not wrongfully desire your neighbor's Wife.
Get a Wife of your own! Only God can give you a Wife.
God Bless you!
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:34 pm

Oh ok.
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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:42 pm

God is Light,
Light came first. Universal darkness
was never the case.

Jesus,
I AM the light of the world.
Those who follow me will not walk in darkness.
They shall have the light of life.

The light shines on in darkness,
a darkness that did not over come it.

Light of the world shine on me.
Love is the answer.
Shine on us all, set us free.
Love is the answer.

The Sun is so powerful.
Yet a baby can look upon the world
and not go blind.

What keeps that ball of fire floating
in the sky in the first place?

Twinkle twinkle little star.
How I wonder what you are.
Up above the world so high.
Like a diamond in the sky...

If the eye is sound the world will be
filled with it's light.
But if the eye is blind
the world will be filled with darkness.

Son of David,
have mercy on us!
What do you want me to do for you?
Lord, we want to see!
I will it. Recieve your sight.

Lazer eye surgery in our own time.

An atomic bomb when looked upon
burns out the cornea.

We all shine on. Like the moon and
the stars and the sun. John Lennon
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:31 pm

o_O
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Kheiron

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PostSubject: Re: Theistic Evolution vs. Intelligent Design   Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:36 pm

... scratch
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