What do you guys think God feels about people who undergo sex change operations? Why do you think some people feel such a dire need to do this, given it's enormous impact on everything about who we are and how God made us? Is this akin to homosexuality and whatever probable mental/emotional inconsistencies they may controversially harbor? What does Scripture, if anything, have to say about this?

It's hard to say, as such a thing did not exist when the Bible was written. I do think, though, that it could very easily be considered a sin to defy God's creation in such a drastic way.

the better question is if u have had one, how does one proceed unsinfully? if you went man to woman, would it be more sinful to then proceed with relationships towards men since you are now a woman, or relationships towards a woman since God made you a man?

also, wouldnt sex changes just be another form of body modification? at least as far as defying Gods creation goes.

Body modification ≠ defying (or defiling, which is what I think you meant) God's creation

I wonder if cavemen ever wondered to themselves, "I am cavewoman, trap in caveman body."

olias wrote:

I wonder if cavemen ever wondered to themselves, "I am a cavewoman, trapped in a caveman's body."

i would bet thats happened. its a pretty valid and extreme pathology.

and munkyy, sex changes are body modification

mystery wrote:

olias wrote:

I wonder if cavemen ever wondered to themselves, "I am a cavewoman, trapped in a caveman's body."

i would bet thats happened. its a pretty valid and extreme pathology.

I can't prove it, but I doubt it.

mystery wrote:

and munkyy, sex changes are body modification

You are correct. I was pointing out that body modification ≠ defiling God's temple.

Munkey106 wrote:

mystery wrote:

and munkyy, sex changes are body modification

You are correct. I was pointing out that body modifications ≠ defiling God's temple.

o
i assume when people respond to me they are disagreeing ^_^
cheers yo

metalgrinch. It's not a question of "how sinful", but "is it sinful." There's no classes of sin in the eyes of God. Profanity is on the same level as blasphemy and murder in His eyes.

againsttheantichrist wrote:

metalgrinch. It's not a question of "how sinful", but "is it sinful." There's no classes of sin in the eyes of God. Profanity is on the same level as blasphemy and murder in His eyes.

wouldnt you say thats very illogical?

What is sin mystery? It's disobedience to God.

Throughout the Bible, there is a substantial list of offenses that are constituted as sins. All of them, with the possible exception of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (but that's another thread) are all one in the same.

Give you a practical example (one that you can likely relate to or have seen others do). Your parents tell you to clean your room, you refuse to do it. Your parents go off for a day and tell you not to have anyone over, but you bring people over anyway. They find out.

Yes, there may be different punishments for each, but at the end of the day, you dishonored your parents with both of them. Therefore, both acts are one in the same.

It's the exact same thing with God, but there's a huge difference. By dishonoring your parents, you committed a finite crime, which results in a finite punishment. If you disobey God, you're committing an infinite crime against an infinite, worthy God. According to the Bible, regardless of the crime, there's only one punishment that fits it if it's against God: Damnation to Hell for eternity.

Make sense?

EDIT: Side note real quick. I'm basing that example on the assumption that the finite and infinite crimes are two completely separate, unrelated issues to prove this point. In reality, you will have committed two crimes with the disobedience, 1 against parents, 1 against God.

well, essentially what you said is that they are both defined as sins and the punishment is the same. it still seems on a logical level, which we all function on, there are lesser sins and greater ones. we would feel more guilt for killing a man that telling a parent we did a chore that we didnt.

Absolutely. I'm not trying to say you wouldn't mystery. I'm just saying that the logical levels we are accustomed will not be relevant on judgment day.

"Sex changes" are mutilation.

metalgrinch's invasion of sex-related threads has already begun

againsttheantichrist wrote:

metalgrinch. It's not a question of "how sinful", but "is it sinful." There's no classes of sin in the eyes of God. Profanity is on the same level as blasphemy and murder in His eyes.

Not according to the Bible. Some sins lead to death, others do not.

16
If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

^^ What's the context of that verse in that passage, Mark? That's one I struggle with, because I am not aware of any other references in the Bible that have the same tone. Pretty much everything else I've read is sin = death.

1
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is begotten by God, and everyone who loves the father loves (also) the one begotten by him.
2
In this way we know that we love the children of God when we love God and obey his commandments.
3
For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome,
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for whoever is begotten by God conquers the world. And the victory that conquers the world is our faith.
5
Who (indeed) is the victor over the world but the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
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This is the one who came through water and blood, 2 Jesus Christ, not by water alone, but by water and blood. The Spirit is the one that testifies, and the Spirit is truth.
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So there are three that testify,
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the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.
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If we accept human testimony, the testimony of God is surely greater. Now the testimony of God is this, that he has testified on behalf of his Son.
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Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar by not believing the testimony God has given about his Son.
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And this is the testimony: God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
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Whoever possesses the Son has life; whoever does not possess the Son of God does not have life.
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3 I write these things to you so that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God.
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And we have this confidence in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
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And if we know that he hears us in regard to whatever we ask, we know that what we have asked him for is ours.
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If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.
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We know that no one begotten by God sins; but the one begotten by God he protects, and the evil one cannot touch him.
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We know that we belong to God, and the whole world is under the power of the evil one.
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We also know that the Son of God has come and has given us discernment to know the one who is true. And we are in the one who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
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Children, be on your guard against idols.

Sins that lead to death are sins that completely erode and annihilate grace in the soul... they are NOT easy to commit.

True, but "the wages of sin is death" is what I hear ringing in my ears. How is it that Adam and Eve's sin led them to death, but other sins may not lead you to death? Obviously w/o Christ there is no life, so no life = death (eternally speaking). So this is my confusion: what sins "lead to death" and why would they be so hard to commit?

Mark wrote:

againsttheantichrist wrote:

metalgrinch. It's not a question of "how sinful", but "is it sinful." There's no classes of sin in the eyes of God. Profanity is on the same level as blasphemy and murder in His eyes.

Not according to the Bible. Some sins lead to death, others do not.

16
If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

Mark. Thats a literal context. There is sin that can cause you to physically die (ex: suicide), but it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. What I'm referring to is spiritual death.

Venial sins and mortal sins. Suprised nobody has mentioned this.

Exhumed wrote:

metalgrinch's invasion of sex-related threads has already begun

Ok, how about "Gender-change operations - how sinful?"

This is not "sex" in regards to physical lovemaking, I'm talking about gender. uh-oh, am I gonna be sent a warning now?

olias wrote:

Venial sins and mortal sins. Suprised nobody has mentioned this.

...I just did.

Mark wrote:

olias wrote:

Venial sins and mortal sins. Suprised nobody has mentioned this.

...I just did.

I meant by name