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unblackberzerker

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PostSubject: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:09 pm

First of all, I'm sorry for the lenghty post. I hate long posts as much as you. Also, I wasn't sure where to put this...




[size=12] I am writing in regard to the recent attention given to mental illness, particularly with emotional disorders. There has been a lot of talk recently about “cracking down on mental illness.” While this is good, I think it carries with it something concerning.


Humans are diverse with a variety of very complex emotions that no one can describe in one or even a few words. I don’t like to see people wanting to eliminate these emotions and replace them with something else. It seems that there is a sort of anti-depression campaign to make sure that people get the “medication they need.” I realize that medical depression/anxiety is a problem and that mental illness can affect one’s emotions. I am glad that treatment is available. However, it has gotten to the point when I am afraid to even say how I really feel for fear of being accused of having an “emotional disorder.” If I say, “I’m sad because things aren’t working out well,” I’d be afraid of being locked away in a mental institution. Sometimes someone just needs to be listened to rather than having pills forced down their throat.

I also see how people seem to view happiness as the only goal in life, and that everything else is viewed as something that must be removed- like a cancer. The right answer is, “I’m doing great” not “Things have been hard after the accident.” Happiness is “right.” Everything else is “wrong.”

I would argue that there is a proper time for everything, including sorrow, anger, etc. At my grandfather’s funeral, I was disgusted how some people were joking around and showed no reverence. Whether they were hiding their emotions or just unaffected by the death, it was inappropriate. My family decided to spend the money to fly back for the funeral partly because we wanted to face the death instead of trying to hide from it. Maybe it is important to differentiate between depression and sadness.

It seems that people are quick to label things and find answers. For example, when someone commits suicide, people are quick to say it was just because of mental illness, when in reality, there are many reasons why someone chooses to take their own life. We need to realize that life is very complex and that there are things that science cannot explain or solve. Maybe there are some things that shouldn’t be “solved” but embraced.

“People label things they can’t understand or that are uncomfortable to talk about as ‘mad.’”
-Wei Jingsheng

As Christians, we need to realize that to follow Christ means to suffer. Pleasure isn’t the ultimate goal in life. Ecclesiastes has a lot to say about this. Solomon says there is a time for everything and that, “The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of pleasure.”

I think about how a lot of dark genres of metal (black, doom, gothic, etc) embrace this idea and are not afraid to look at the darker aspects of life. I don’t like how these bands are sometimes not really taken seriously and people don’t really understand what they are saying. I’m not sure what to think about terms like “depressive suicidal black metal.” Yeah, it’s a lot about suicide, but I think it’s important to realize that often what these bands are describing is something much deeper than an “emotional disorder.” Maybe depression is the right word for it, but it is more than a mental thing. I remember an interview with one of the guys from Dimmu Borgir, and he said, “To some people it might seem destructive, but to us it is constructive.”

These are just some thoughts. I’m not saying it’s wrong to want pleasure and happiness in one’s life. The main thing I’m trying to say is, I get sick of how a lot of people are really shallow-minded and like to put idiotic labels on others. Anyone else feel this way?

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Walter Kovacs

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:35 pm

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As Christians, we need to realize that to follow Christ means to suffer
Not necessarily. Being a Christian doesn't mean we automatically suffer. There is an element of that, but it's not the whole story by any means. This is not an either/or situation; to take either without the other is dangerous ground. Balance is one of the underlying themes of the Faith.

"If any man will come after me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me" (Luke 9:23)

But Christ also said:

"Come unto to me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matt 11:28-30)


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unblackberzerker

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:46 pm

yes, good point. It's a complex thing. As Christians, we suffer, but we also thrive, knowing that we have Christ inside of us.

I do think that the Bible makes it clear that to be a true follower of Christ, you will suffer in one form or another.
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:39 pm

I agree whole heartedly, and as such, I will only reply to one thing.

unblackberzerker wrote:

These are just some thoughts. I’m not saying it’s wrong to want pleasure and happiness in one’s life. The main thing I’m trying to say is, I get sick of how a lot of people are really shallow-minded and like to put idiotic labels on others. Anyone else feel this way?

This is the result of our country not wanting to hurt people's feeling. I think it is bullshit and people need to be offended.

This thread just reminded me of a commercial that hits the nail on the head imo:



That is what I think of the individuals that do that kind of garbage. I'm all for that drill sergeant being a therapist for the weak!
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Garrison4JC

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:17 am

"Sorrow is better than laughter, because a sad face is good for the heart." - Ecclesiastes 7:3

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IronGuardian

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:12 am

unblackberzerker wrote:
Maybe it is important to differentiate between depression and sadness

There is a big difference between the two.

Depression can often make people feel sad, but that is not always the case. More often, it'll make them feel nothing, to the point where feeling sad appears to be the happy alternative.

If someone is simply sad because of some event or trauma, that is to be expected. It is when they are continually sad, and not in responce to any one event, that it could be a potential problem.

Medication can really help those who are medically unwell, but medication is only one part of the whole puzzle.

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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:11 pm

IronGuardian wrote:
Depression can often make people feel sad, but that is not always the case. More often, it'll make them feel nothing, to the point where feeling sad appears to be the happy alternative.

That's so true.

I can see where you're coming from, Unblackberzerker, but I don't think you fairly presented both sides of the issue. I do definitely agree that no one should be coerced out of exploring dark thoughts (even thoughts of suicide), but on the other hand, mental disorders are pretty serious and the difference between them and normal experiences in life is pretty clear. For people with mental disorders, feelings like depression, anxiety and fear are not circumstantial; they're a consuming void in the sufferer's life. So with that in mind, I don't think it's accurate to say that your favorite band's lyrics are "deeper" than that.
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unblackberzerker

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:03 pm

I thought I made that clear, but thanks anyways.

I'm mostly just trying to voice my thoughts and open up a discussion. I'm not saying, "This is the way it is, and that's final."

Another aspect is, people try to solve their "problems" with cheap, shallow things. Drugs (basically that's what it is) are only for certain cases and solve the physical aspect of it. There are many "drugs" like money, relationships, etc, but people need to realize that only Christ can truly fill the emptiness inside. Those other things give one the illusion of security, but true peace comes from God only.

Thank you all for your comments. It's good to know others are thinking about this, and it's comforting to know there are still people who have a brain.
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:39 pm

unblackberzerker wrote:
I thought I made that clear, but thanks anyways.

I'm mostly just trying to voice my thoughts and open up a discussion. I'm not saying, "This is the way it is, and that's final."

Another aspect is, people try to solve their "problems" with cheap, shallow things. Drugs (basically that's what it is) are only for certain cases and solve the physical aspect of it. There are many "drugs" like money, relationships, etc, but people need to realize that only Christ can truly fill the emptiness inside. Those other things give one the illusion of security, but true peace comes from God only.

Thank you all for your comments. It's good to know others are thinking about this, and it's comforting to know there are still people who have a brain.

Since you are speaking of peace and filling the void, here is my .02.

I tend to think comments like those are based more upon emotions rather than absolute facts. My life in Christ has actually been a very chaotic one, not a peaceful one. Looking into God, turned me to the darker side of life, where it is chaos, not order, that reigns throughout every thought and action.

Christ, is a Messiah, but until we Truly see face to face, Christ is more of a historical character to us today. We are not like Peter, nor the rest of the 12 who could actually talk and discuss to. Instead, we just have the words of men that we trust are correct for our personal interpretations of Christ.

When you say Christ, nowadays, that means a variety of things.

As I showed with the video above, concerning the emotional kind of voids, a big reason why there are voids and problems they feel they can't get out of, is because most of the time, they really don't wish to do or change anything about it, and instead pout about it. Not everybody does this, and I know some of the people on here went through depression, but got out of it, so it's not referrencing to those, but most of the time, it is a "woe is me" attitude.

I have met plenty of non-Christians who are very fulfilled and satisfied with life, who do live a life of love and peace. So, I do know what you are saying, but overall, I disagree, because not everybody who lives a live without a void and with peace is Christian, and not all non-Christians are the ones who have chaotic lives, even led by God to the Chaos.

You have presented a path that A only leads to B and C only leads to D. The Truth is, A can lead to B, C, D etc. so I see it as a blanket statement.
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Walter Kovacs

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:25 pm

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Christ, is a Messiah, but until we Truly see face to face, Christ is more of a historical character to us today. We are not like Peter, nor the rest of the 12 who could actually talk and discuss to. Instead, we just have the words of men that we trust are correct for our personal interpretations of Christ.

I'm curious as to where you get this belief.
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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:38 pm

unblackberzerker wrote:
Another aspect is, people try to solve their "problems" with cheap, shallow things. Drugs (basically that's what it is) are only for certain cases and solve the physical aspect of it. There are many "drugs" like money, relationships, etc, but people need to realize that only Christ can truly fill the emptiness inside. Those other things give one the illusion of security, but true peace comes from God only.

I'm pretty sure "drugs" are adequate to fix chemical imbalances that cause mental disorders. Empirical evidence suggests so anyway. One might have other problems to deal with in addition but that's a separate issue.
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:29 pm

Walter Kovacs wrote:
Quote :
Christ, is a Messiah, but until we Truly see face to face, Christ is more of a historical character to us today. We are not like Peter, nor the rest of the 12 who could actually talk and discuss to. Instead, we just have the words of men that we trust are correct for our personal interpretations of Christ.

I'm curious as to where you get this belief.

There may have been an understanding and a miscommunication right away, but I will attempt to explain.

Let us take Peter for example. Peter grew up, lived, and died, around the time of Christ being alive. Peter himself, lived with Christ, talked with Christ, even had His own ear put back on by Christ. He met the real, living Christ. Peter was able to give us an exact description of Christ. He didn't have blind faith as He witnessed Christ.

Now, take us, nearly 2,000 years later. Within those 2,000 years, we have so much rumors and speculations come about. There has come to be so much separatism within the description of Christ, it is harder to make us know just how Christ really is, other than assumptions. Take our denominations into heart, that tells us how Christ is, and indoctrinate how Christ did this or that, then also take into consideration within the revisions of our evidence for this Christ. Things moved around, things added in, things taken out, it all adds to our personal views of God and Christ. However, they are nothing more than interpretations, as we never physically met Christ, like Peter did.

Our thoughts are based on people we Trust with hearsay. That is all we have today, wheras Peter has 1st hand experience. To me, this explains why some think Christ means literally cannibalizing ( 1 word summarization here, no shooting at anyone here) vs. symbolically eating when concerning a subject matter like The Last Supper. This goes into thoughts of how Christ looked like, what kind of individual He was, what He really advocated, taught, and even what he really meant with what He said.

We all know and take into consideration, everybody has personal views of Christ. This is shown with our denominations, and everybody agrees they can't all be correct. This problem wasn't there with the 12 because of them meeting the actual Christ, and not hearing a story passed down from the view point of others. Remember, I haven't even spoke of Islam, nor Judaism's view of Christ either, which just adds a whole 2 dimensions to our personal views of Christ from sources passed down.

I hope you see where I am getting at, and I apologize if this strays the thread.
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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:43 pm

Yeah, DOL, I agree that it isn't so simple as, "Jesus makes life perfect", and my life is also very chaotic. I do think that Christ can be real in our lives here and now. I think you probably realize this.

Please understand I am not saying A only leads to B. What I've been talking about are huge issues that I think no one can completely understand. I just thought I would give my thoughts to balance out some of the ideas that are in the mainstream today (and this is the last time I will say this).
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:03 am

unblackberzerker wrote:
Yeah, DOL, I agree that it isn't so simple as, "Jesus makes life perfect", and my life is also very chaotic. I do think that Christ can be real in our lives here and now. I think you probably realize this.

Please understand I am not saying A only leads to B. What I've been talking about are huge issues that I think no one can completely understand. I just thought I would give my thoughts to balance out some of the ideas that are in the mainstream today (and this is the last time I will say this).

I agree, but as you said, I was pointing out that it wasn't as simple as you were making it out to be.

For the A and B thing, please be aware of what you said that caused me to say that. I know what you are meaning, and I agree. However, I was disagreeing on you saying that only God can bring True Peace, as I've met non-Christians who have True Peace.

No need to repeat yourself constantly, we know you are just giving thoughts. I also wanted to just have discussion. We aren't attacking you or anything, just throwing in our .02 into the pot sort to speak.
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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:59 pm

Ive had major problems with anxiety and depression.. and it's chemical, not spiritual or psychological. ( although pyschology does play a small role ).

It is good that we live in a day when the stigma associated with mental illness is pretty much removed. And also that we have so many constantly improving psychiatric meds.
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:10 pm

Garrison4JC wrote:
"Sorrow is better than laughter, because a sad face is good for the heart." - Ecclesiastes 7:3


How very catholic Razz
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Garrison4JC

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:58 am

Well...I am Irish...but on the Protestant side. Hahaha!

Wink

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:32 am

I myself have what i guess is reffered to today as being bipolar, this is a horrible condition, at one point your super happy and on top of the world and the next you hate life and want to die, and the sad thing is you can see the lows coming from a mile away and there isnt anything you can do about it, cant stop them, for those who dont know bipolar is where you have no middle ground, you basically want to die or you want to go feed the homeless and save the world to put it in perspective, this disease has pushed me into 13 suicide attempts over the last 17 years, it pushed my into drug abuse as a way to try and self medicate because i was to stupid to go see a doctor, which all opened a new and 50 times more horrible disorder ive had now for 8 years called anxiety disorder, im sure we all know what that is, basically if i dont take my meds i completely lose it mentally, my anxiety is so consuming that if i dont take my pills daily i have crippling panic attacks to the point where i cant function period, i curl up in a ball in my dark room and cry and cry because thats all i can do, so my 2 mental disorders feed each other, but by the grace of god i have had 0 panic attacks in almost 2 years because of my meds, as for depression its still comes but not as bad because of the meds, now it doesnt get so bad i count the reasons i should kill myself, im by no means a whiner, emo, or anything of that nature but when the depression has its grip and its bears down theres not a whole lot else to think about, this is coming from a depression pro if you will:)

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:42 am

The Last Firstborn wrote:
unblackberzerker wrote:
Another aspect is, people try to solve their "problems" with cheap, shallow things. Drugs (basically that's what it is) are only for certain cases and solve the physical aspect of it. There are many "drugs" like money, relationships, etc, but people need to realize that only Christ can truly fill the emptiness inside. Those other things give one the illusion of security, but true peace comes from God only.

I'm pretty sure "drugs" are adequate to fix chemical imbalances that cause mental disorders. Empirical evidence suggests so anyway. One might have other problems to deal with in addition but that's a separate issue.
Without the meds i would have went insane, i have also been cursed with anxiety disorder for 8 years now, without meds i could not function period, God did not fix these issues for me, he gave me the chance to fix them myself with the meds, now this might not make sense to someone who doesnt know me but let me break it down, i am a very forgetful person, never was able to remember dates times, etc when i needed to do things, which caused people to have to wait on me all the time, i was always late, i was really bad about this when i was younger, well after i finally got on the meds for my bipolar that all changed, i had to teach myself to be organized, be on time, etc, so i believe God used that whole thing as a way to teach me to be respectful of time and to be punctual, if that makes sense, i do agree with what your saying, yes some people do get on meds just to get on them but in my case my life would come to a grinding halt without my meds, but then again mine are non narcotic so i guess there is a difference, due to my past drug abuse i have opted to be on meds that have no narcotic effect, i also believe this was another test from God to test my resolve, my doctor has tried to put my on xanax for 7 years now for my anxiety but i refuse since the pills im currently on work

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:09 pm

Thanks for sharing. I'm glad you've been able to get the help you need.
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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:36 pm

cheers Smile

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:28 am

Mental Illness and Depression suck!! My heart goes out to those who are seemingly stuck in the mire and see no end in sight. The Good Lord knows I've had my share.

Depression or extreme discouragement to the point of becoming disabled has been experienced since the inception of sin. A number of Bible characters displayed symptoms that probably meet today's criteria for clinical depression. All people at times face moments of extreme discouragement for any variety of reasons. No wonder then that The Word of God is filled with promises that can give all of us no matter our situation reasons to hope for a better future. If not in this world, then certainly the next.

When depression is severe and prolonged, it is important to get professional help when possible. The Lord can work through these people, even secular counselors and psychologists recommend that those who believe in prayer pray. Regardless of your relationship with God, were you physically ill you would seek the help of a doctor or health professional. It is the same for those suffering from severe clinical depression. Which is often cause by a genetic predisposition and/or chemical imbalance. Even Christians at times might need the help of professionals.

Sadness is not a sin. Look how often Jesus felt sad. He was overwhelmed by sorrow to the point of death (Matt 26:36-43).

Here is a text/promise that comforts me, "The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit" Ps 34:18

Oh, and a song to sum things up nicely for me
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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:22 am

Thats a good story actually, dave. Im glad you got some treatments that work.

Amd uea, people that think you just have to pray and get right with God to recover from mental problems.. Annoy me to no end. Prayer is vital in everything.. But a sick brain needs treatment just like any other organ that is malfunctioning.
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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:21 am

Thank you sir, I hate that as well, its sad its always the people who seemingly have perfect lives and no problems in their little worlds that look at people like us and they say just get over it, just make yourself feel better, there is nothing lower to say to people like us, because we try that every single day, all day, to just get better, and it cannot work, no matter how hard we will it or pray about it, it just doesnt work, dont get me wrong, im not saying prayer doesnt work, i have witnessed numerous times that it does, but God puts us through trials, though he doesnt give us anything we cant handle he also doesnt just let us all coast through life unscathed either

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PostSubject: Re: My Thoughts on Depression/Mental Illness   Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:58 am

Hmm interesting how we all see things differently Smile nothing wrong with that at all.

Mental illness can be due to many things and I believe can be helped with a combination of meds... prayer... dealing with past sin, generational curses, childhood experience, current habits, thought life etc etc

To say that Christ is like a historical character?

I am not sure who you are following then DOL, the Son of the living God.. or the Son who is a historical figure.

We kinda focus too much on ourselves, our opinions and our ways of processing things and wonder why we are the same...

Something that plays over in my mind- Don't do what you've always done.

I am glad those of you who deal and dealt with mental illness are not letting it beat you, my hat is off to you... as a former depressive person Smile

bless ya'll
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