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oldschooldoom

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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:18 pm

^ Don't forget the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" demigod too Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:54 pm

Gorlim (OMW) wrote:


However, I have a question for SSG Jake... I've been reading your posts on this topic and I want you to clarify something.

Do you believe that people who live a "good" life and try to do their best with themselves and other people are going to Heaven, regardless of what G(g)od they worship? Whether if it's the Christian God or Allah or Ishtar or whatever?


Yes.

I mean, I see so many people who are devout in their faith, and I think to myself, how can God punish those people? As long as the God is teaching them to be a good person, not a hateful douchebag who hurts people and makes life miserable for the rest of humanity. I don't really have the words to describe my thoughts. As I said erlier, most religions are teaching the same basic virtues, charity, love for your fellow man, acknoweldgement of God as higher than you and you are loved by him and you should love others as He loves you, and just punishment for being a bad person. The way I have interperated God's word, Getting into heaven is not hard, it's easy, and CHrist came to make it even easier. I know my veiws are unpopular among more "traditional" Christians, but I don't care. This is the only way the world makes sense to me. I just can't see God as the overbearing Jerk that some people see Him as. But of course, as I always say, I don't know I'm right, but I have faith that I am.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:07 pm

SSG Jake wrote:
So, you're telling me that the majority of the people are going to hell, EVEN thoguh most of them are deccent, even God fearing people?

Again, read Romans, and you'd be hard-pressed to say such a thing with a straight face.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:18 pm

SSG Jake wrote:
Gorlim (OMW) wrote:
Do you believe that people who live a "good" life and try to do their best with themselves and other people are going to Heaven, regardless of what G(g)od they worship? Whether if it's the Christian God or Allah or Ishtar or whatever?

Yes.

I can't think of any way to state this that it's not going to be a powderkeg, but the dictionary calls that "religious pluralism".
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:28 pm

SSG Jake wrote:
Gorlim (OMW) wrote:


However, I have a question for SSG Jake... I've been reading your posts on this topic and I want you to clarify something.

Do you believe that people who live a "good" life and try to do their best with themselves and other people are going to Heaven, regardless of what G(g)od they worship? Whether if it's the Christian God or Allah or Ishtar or whatever?


Yes.

I mean, I see so many people who are devout in their faith, and I think to myself, how can God punish those people? As long as the God is teaching them to be a good person, not a hateful douchebag who hurts people and makes life miserable for the rest of humanity. I don't really have the words to describe my thoughts. As I said erlier, most religions are teaching the same basic virtues, charity, love for your fellow man, acknoweldgement of God as higher than you and you are loved by him and you should love others as He loves you, and just punishment for being a bad person. The way I have interperated God's word, Getting into heaven is not hard, it's easy, and CHrist came to make it even easier. I know my veiws are unpopular among more "traditional" Christians, but I don't care. This is the only way the world makes sense to me. I just can't see God as the overbearing Jerk that some people see Him as. But of course, as I always say, I don't know I'm right, but I have faith that I am.


I see what you're saying, but I don't understand how, from a Biblical standpoint, you can justify this belief.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:14 pm

Gorlim (OMW) wrote:
SSG Jake wrote:
Gorlim (OMW) wrote:


However, I have a question for SSG Jake... I've been reading your posts on this topic and I want you to clarify something.

Do you believe that people who live a "good" life and try to do their best with themselves and other people are going to Heaven, regardless of what G(g)od they worship? Whether if it's the Christian God or Allah or Ishtar or whatever?


Yes.

I mean, I see so many people who are devout in their faith, and I think to myself, how can God punish those people? As long as the God is teaching them to be a good person, not a hateful douchebag who hurts people and makes life miserable for the rest of humanity. I don't really have the words to describe my thoughts. As I said erlier, most religions are teaching the same basic virtues, charity, love for your fellow man, acknoweldgement of God as higher than you and you are loved by him and you should love others as He loves you, and just punishment for being a bad person. The way I have interperated God's word, Getting into heaven is not hard, it's easy, and CHrist came to make it even easier. I know my veiws are unpopular among more "traditional" Christians, but I don't care. This is the only way the world makes sense to me. I just can't see God as the overbearing Jerk that some people see Him as. But of course, as I always say, I don't know I'm right, but I have faith that I am.


I see what you're saying, but I don't understand how, from a Biblical standpoint, you can justify this belief.

Well, I don't see, from a "Torah" standpoint, or a "Quaran" standpoint how you can believe in this "Jesus" guy. According to those books, he OBVIOUSLY isn't the son of God. Look, I'm just trying to get yall to look at it from their perspective.

Plus, how can you say that what's in your heart has NO meqaning. Once again, I bring up Fred Phelps. He BELIEVES that all the vile hatred he spews is coming FROM CHRIST!! So, by yalls definition, he would be going to Heaven, because he is following CHrists word as HE reads it. And if a man like him is going to paradise, what kind of world are we living in? Again, what kind of God would allow that?

And as far as the "Religious pluralism" thing, uh, sure, why not. Again, I know yall think I'm wrong, but you don't KNOW. I have FAITH that I'm right. And I refuse to believe that all the good people of the world, who could not change their religion any more than any of us could, are going to Hell. I don't give a damn what people think of me. It's this whole argument of, "My God can beat up your God" that has the world in such turmoil. I have read the words of CHrist, and this is how I see it. If that makes me unpopular, so be it. I don't shy away from my veiws, and I don't expect yall to believe me, and I don't give a damn if you do or not. As I have said before, this is the only way life makes sense to me. Take it or leave it.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:37 pm

SSG Jake wrote:
Gorlim (OMW) wrote:
SSG Jake wrote:
Gorlim (OMW) wrote:


However, I have a question for SSG Jake... I've been reading your posts on this topic and I want you to clarify something.

Do you believe that people who live a "good" life and try to do their best with themselves and other people are going to Heaven, regardless of what G(g)od they worship? Whether if it's the Christian God or Allah or Ishtar or whatever?


Yes.

I mean, I see so many people who are devout in their faith, and I think to myself, how can God punish those people? As long as the God is teaching them to be a good person, not a hateful douchebag who hurts people and makes life miserable for the rest of humanity. I don't really have the words to describe my thoughts. As I said erlier, most religions are teaching the same basic virtues, charity, love for your fellow man, acknoweldgement of God as higher than you and you are loved by him and you should love others as He loves you, and just punishment for being a bad person. The way I have interperated God's word, Getting into heaven is not hard, it's easy, and CHrist came to make it even easier. I know my veiws are unpopular among more "traditional" Christians, but I don't care. This is the only way the world makes sense to me. I just can't see God as the overbearing Jerk that some people see Him as. But of course, as I always say, I don't know I'm right, but I have faith that I am.


I see what you're saying, but I don't understand how, from a Biblical standpoint, you can justify this belief.

Well, I don't see, from a "Torah" standpoint, or a "Quaran" standpoint how you can believe in this "Jesus" guy. According to those books, he OBVIOUSLY isn't the son of God. Look, I'm just trying to get yall to look at it from their perspective.

Plus, how can you say that what's in your heart has NO meqaning. Once again, I bring up Fred Phelps. He BELIEVES that all the vile hatred he spews is coming FROM CHRIST!! So, by yalls definition, he would be going to Heaven, because he is following CHrists word as HE reads it. And if a man like him is going to paradise, what kind of world are we living in? Again, what kind of God would allow that?

And as far as the "Religious pluralism" thing, uh, sure, why not. Again, I know yall think I'm wrong, but you don't KNOW. I have FAITH that I'm right. And I refuse to believe that all the good people of the world, who could not change their religion any more than any of us could, are going to Hell. I don't give a damn what people think of me. It's this whole argument of, "My God can beat up your God" that has the world in such turmoil. I have read the words of CHrist, and this is how I see it. If that makes me unpopular, so be it. I don't shy away from my veiws, and I don't expect yall to believe me, and I don't give a damn if you do or not. As I have said before, this is the only way life makes sense to me. Take it or leave it.

Alright alright. I didn't say you were wrong. I was just simply asking questions. The whole Fred Phelps thing is a whole other discussion.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:47 pm

Gorlim (OMW) wrote:


Alright alright. I didn't say you were wrong. I was just simply asking questions. The whole Fred Phelps thing is a whole other discussion.

I know. Razz I just get passionate. Sorry, if I came off as mean. I think the most important thing of all is that we all get along with each other. So, wanna grab a beer sometime? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:40 am

SSG Jake wrote:
Gorlim (OMW) wrote:


Alright alright. I didn't say you were wrong. I was just simply asking questions. The whole Fred Phelps thing is a whole other discussion.

I know. Razz I just get passionate. Sorry, if I came off as mean. I think the most important thing of all is that we all get along with each other. So, wanna grab a beer sometime? Very Happy


Beer really isn't my thing. Perhaps a Mike's Hard Lemonade though Cool
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:43 am

I know that God is Just. I believe that for those who didn't know Jesus, He will judge them according to their conscience. But if anyone knows about The Gospel of Jesus Christ and refuses to believe in Him, no matter how "good*" they seem to live, they are definitively not entering The Kingdom of God. Or else, why did Jesus came on Earth for the very purpose of dying for us? His death would be vain if your logic was right. So much for nothing, just act "good" and be saved? It's not the way things are.

Jesus is the bridge between humanity and God. No Jesus*, no Heaven.

We must keep in mind how filthy humanity is. That our standard for good can be like filth to God.

Besides, in the ancient times, for the Jews, you had to pay for your sins. You'd have to give a sacrifice to God because for a sin to be forgiven, there needed to be blood. Sinning is rebellion and it's a very serious issue. The animals given in sacrifice would die in the place of the sinner. This system was "adequate" for this time because they lived all together. But culture aside, the purpose of this covenant was to be the base of the True Covenant that God wanted for His People on Earth through Jesus Christ. He made it much easier for us humans, and also less awkward in today's society even though a lot of Christians are already frowned upon for their beliefs. Imagine making an altar in the woods to sacrifice your goat for a sin you made earlier that week... Now you just ask for forgiveness and act accordingly (with a change at heart) and you are truly forgiven, because of Jesus' sacrifice.) In the old times too, the covenant gave restrictions on what not to do. Like you shall not lust after your neighbors wife. Then Jesus came and made it clear that the True Religion is in the heart. Meaning, trying to keep ourselves pure wholly, from the inside out, and not only in appearance with a heart full of filth.

notes:
Jesus*: Here we are talking about modern times, where the name of Jesus is known by 99% of all the humans on Earth and where many know about The Gospel. For ancient times, refer to the first sentence of my post.

-"good*" because appearances are just that; appearances. Everyone has dirty secrets and just because you don't see them really doesn't make them "just enough" to be pure in front of God. Because no man is perfect and all man are hell deserving sinners, period.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:45 am

^ KNOW Jesus KNOW Heaven
NO Jesus No Heaven
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:39 am

Whatever.
Look, this is how I see things. I have a very rational mind, ie, I have to SEE, HEAR, TOUCH, or SMELL something to believe in it. Otherwise, it has to make logical sense. Example, I can't "see" gravity, but logically, I can tell it's there. Now, before I say anything, I AM A CHRISTIAN. I believe that Jesus is the son fo God, and that He died for my sins. That's about the only thing in my lifew that I can take on faith.

You keep quoting Scripture, Hero. Now, I'm willing to bet that if I brought a Jew onto this board, he would give a very compelling arguiment as to why Jesus is NOT the son of God, ALL based on scripture. What I'M saying is, how do you know he's wrong? You don't KNOW. Has Jesus Christ Himself appeared to you in a puff of smoke, given you the "Buddy Christ" wink and fingerguns, and said, "I'm real?" No? Then guess what, you don't KNOW! You have FAITH, and that Jew's faith is just as strong as yours. Who the hell are you to say he's wrong? I don't know? I could be wrong, and the Muslim's could be right, and I'm going to hell for eating that pork chop last week. Or, We could be wrong, and the more strict Christians could be right, and I'm going to hell for any number of reasons. OR, we could ALL be wrong, there is no God, and when you die you just kinda *PHHFFTTT*. I DON'T know, but, I have FAITH that I'm right.

This may all sound like nonsense to yall, but as I said before, I don't care. THIS is what I believe. That God is the most wonderous being to exist. Hios love is infinite, And takes many forms. I'm not trying to convert you, because we're all saved already. I'm just staing my opinion. You can't change my mind about this, because, as I said earlier, I like things to make sense, and THIS makes sense to me. Maybe not you, but it does to me. But hey, like I just said, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I die and get upstairs, and there are no Jews or Muslims, and Jesus meets me at the pearly Gates, embraces me, then slaps me in the face and says, "What the HELL were you thinking, dude?!" Then, I'll know, won't I? And so will you. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:35 pm

SSG Jake wrote:
Whatever.
Look, this is how I see things. I have a very rational mind, ie, I have to SEE, HEAR, TOUCH, or SMELL something to believe in it. Otherwise, it has to make logical sense. Example, I can't "see" gravity, but logically, I can tell it's there. Now, before I say anything, I AM A CHRISTIAN. I believe that Jesus is the son fo God, and that He died for my sins. That's about the only thing in my lifew that I can take on faith.

You keep quoting Scripture, Hero. Now, I'm willing to bet that if I brought a Jew onto this board, he would give a very compelling arguiment as to why Jesus is NOT the son of God, ALL based on scripture. What I'M saying is, how do you know he's wrong? You don't KNOW. Has Jesus Christ Himself appeared to you in a puff of smoke, given you the "Buddy Christ" wink and fingerguns, and said, "I'm real?" No? Then guess what, you don't KNOW! You have FAITH, and that Jew's faith is just as strong as yours. Who the hell are you to say he's wrong? I don't know? I could be wrong, and the Muslim's could be right, and I'm going to hell for eating that pork chop last week. Or, We could be wrong, and the more strict Christians could be right, and I'm going to hell for any number of reasons. OR, we could ALL be wrong, there is no God, and when you die you just kinda *PHHFFTTT*. I DON'T know, but, I have FAITH that I'm right.

This may all sound like nonsense to yall, but as I said before, I don't care. THIS is what I believe. That God is the most wonderous being to exist. Hios love is infinite, And takes many forms. I'm not trying to convert you, because we're all saved already. I'm just staing my opinion. You can't change my mind about this, because, as I said earlier, I like things to make sense, and THIS makes sense to me. Maybe not you, but it does to me. But hey, like I just said, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I die and get upstairs, and there are no Jews or Muslims, and Jesus meets me at the pearly Gates, embraces me, then slaps me in the face and says, "What the HELL were you thinking, dude?!" Then, I'll know, won't I? And so will you. Wink


I applaud your passion.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:02 pm

Gorlim (OMW) wrote:
SSG Jake wrote:
Whatever.
Look, this is how I see things. I have a very rational mind, ie, I have to SEE, HEAR, TOUCH, or SMELL something to believe in it. Otherwise, it has to make logical sense. Example, I can't "see" gravity, but logically, I can tell it's there. Now, before I say anything, I AM A CHRISTIAN. I believe that Jesus is the son fo God, and that He died for my sins. That's about the only thing in my lifew that I can take on faith.

You keep quoting Scripture, Hero. Now, I'm willing to bet that if I brought a Jew onto this board, he would give a very compelling arguiment as to why Jesus is NOT the son of God, ALL based on scripture. What I'M saying is, how do you know he's wrong? You don't KNOW. Has Jesus Christ Himself appeared to you in a puff of smoke, given you the "Buddy Christ" wink and fingerguns, and said, "I'm real?" No? Then guess what, you don't KNOW! You have FAITH, and that Jew's faith is just as strong as yours. Who the hell are you to say he's wrong? I don't know? I could be wrong, and the Muslim's could be right, and I'm going to hell for eating that pork chop last week. Or, We could be wrong, and the more strict Christians could be right, and I'm going to hell for any number of reasons. OR, we could ALL be wrong, there is no God, and when you die you just kinda *PHHFFTTT*. I DON'T know, but, I have FAITH that I'm right.

This may all sound like nonsense to yall, but as I said before, I don't care. THIS is what I believe. That God is the most wonderous being to exist. Hios love is infinite, And takes many forms. I'm not trying to convert you, because we're all saved already. I'm just staing my opinion. You can't change my mind about this, because, as I said earlier, I like things to make sense, and THIS makes sense to me. Maybe not you, but it does to me. But hey, like I just said, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I die and get upstairs, and there are no Jews or Muslims, and Jesus meets me at the pearly Gates, embraces me, then slaps me in the face and says, "What the HELL were you thinking, dude?!" Then, I'll know, won't I? And so will you. Wink


I applaud your passion.

+1

I enjoy reading your posts, SSG Jake. I hope you stick around for a long time!
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:00 pm

SSG Jake, one can be sincere . . . but one can be sincerely wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:01 pm

As far as I know, people who have never heard the gospel are going to be judged for the things they've done [their hearts] while those who have actually known of Christ, and refused Him.. well, are pretty much screwed.

So G.I. Joe, I think you're kinda right in a way, but Jesus is indispensable for reaching Heaven.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:04 pm

I wonder if anyone has ever said, "I'm not a full blooded Jew, I'm Jew-ish."?
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:07 pm

Hguols wrote:
I wonder if anyone has ever said, "I'm not a full blooded Jew, I'm Jew-ish."?

"I am Princess Vespa, daughter or Roland, King of the Druids!!"

"Great, That's just what we need. A Druish Princess."

"Funny, she doesn't LOOK Druish."

Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:08 pm

JeffdlS wrote:
SSG Jake, one can be sincere . . . but one can be sincerely wrong.

True dat, my friend. Like I said, I could be. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:08 pm

I'm so tired of the expression " you are gonna go to hell".

What you mean to say is that " you are going to be damned, or you are going to the lake of fire".

As far as hell is concerned-

This is hell, we are already there. ( according to scripture ). Both king David and Jonah referred to this existence as hell while still being alive in this world. Christ referred to us as the walking dead. Sheol ( hell ).. means "the kingdom of the dead or "the kingdom of death".

The First death occurs in hell. The second death is the lake of fire, which is the place we referred to when we say you are going to be "damned". Because it is the final judgement.

Revelations clarifies the difference between the two things nicely-

" and hell and death were thrown into the lake of fire".

this is just one of those subjects millions of preachers have gotten wrong for hundreds of years.. and so millions of Christians who don't study scripture for themselves, but rather believe as they are told.. don't know the difference.

Normally , matters of "mixing up" terminology is not that huge of a deal. But confusing Hell with the Second Death.. and not teaching people what hell is, is I believe a huge problem. And it leads to threads liek this were you have two pages of alot of superfluous arguments based on false information about Hell and eternal Damnation.. and the difference between the two.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:23 pm

Quote :
Has Jesus Christ Himself appeared to you in a puff of smoke, given you
the "Buddy Christ" wink and fingerguns, and said, "I'm real?" No? Then
guess what, you don't KNOW! You have FAITH, and that Jew's faith is just
as strong as yours. Who the hell are you to say he's wrong? I don't
know? I could be wrong, and the Muslim's could be right, and I'm going
to hell for eating that pork chop last week. Or, We could be wrong, and
the more strict Christians could be right, and I'm going to hell for any
number of reasons. OR, we could ALL be wrong, there is no God, and when
you die you just kinda *PHHFFTTT*. I DON'T know, but, I have FAITH that
I'm right.

Interestingly, you are already in hell for something your ancestors did. What we are trying to avoid through Christ is not Hell, but the Judgment, also known as eternal damnation. Neither Hell nor death are eternal at all.. they occur Forever, because they are ruled over by Time. But then I should not have brought up a difference between "Eternal" and Forever.. now I am going to have to explain that.. possibly.

Rev 20 -14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death


Some ancient concepts to think about-

Eternal - Experienced when a being exists above but also "in" the lower dimensions, such as Time.

For example - If Time was the second dimnesion, instead of the fourth.. a three dimensional being would exist both in time and also above it. From his perspective, we call his experience of Time in this sense Eternal.

Forever- Experienced when a being is "fallen". into lower dimensions, which are ruled over by Time..

For example- when a being that was made for ,let us say, 11 dimensions, is restricted to 4, that means that being is Fallen. Literally- he fell into lower dimensions. What is interesting.. is that the ancient Jews wrote about this and understood this in relation to higher and lower dimensions, which we understand well today with quantum physics. A four dimensional being is caught up in width, height, breadth and Time. Thus he is caught in a measurement of time that is different than a 5 or 6 dimensional being would exist in. This is where we use the word Forever, instead of Eternity.

Life in heaven is Eternal because it is a Life that is above the lower dimension of Time. There will Time, because Time is one of the important lower dimensions. The difference is. is that Time in heaven is not inescapable.. it is like stream of water you could walk into or out of at will.. A larger being that is larger than 4 dimensions, is not restricted by Time as we four dimensional fallen beings are.

Death in Damnation is Forever because to be caught in the lower dimensions.. like Time and never being able to escape it.. inevitable leads to Death and a Death that is Final. Finality is Forever. This sort of death is too small for a Heavenly being to experience because he is too Large too fit into it. It would be like trying to fit a three dimensional object into a two dimensional object.. it doesn't work.

(True) Life is Eternal - Infinite , no end, no beginning.

Finality in Death is Forever. - Endless Finite. Completion of End. No escape from the consequence of Time.

When we are born again.. we are born again.. as we were, before Falling into the lower dimensions. That is why we must be born again to be saved. Only a being large enough, a being who exists in more than the 4 dimensions that we exist in while in our fallen state.. can "fit" into heaven. This is why you will find that when you are born again.. you will find eventually that you have new gifts that you did not have before.. there is a being inside of still just a seed that is actually a Higher Dimensional Human than the shell that carries it. I know that sounds slightly crazy.. but I challenge anyone to think about it It is merely looking at the same spiritual truths from a different facet.
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Hguols

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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:24 pm

Ash old buddy old pal, how is it that you can type something so WELL, intellectual and profound.... like this post you made here.

...and then a few days/threads/posts later you're grunting and dragging your digits over the keyboard. There's got to be a reason.

Its it that:

+ + + + drunkfall

=

"What point if that nation id Everyone's nation who can manage to get to it?" drunken

????

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olias

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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:29 pm

lollerz.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:37 pm

totally unrelated, but kinda is.

I have been exploring Caballa (the christian version of course)

I like it a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: A question about the Jews.   Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:50 pm

olias wrote:
totally unrelated, but kinda is.

I have been exploring Caballa (the christian version of course)

I like it a lot.

I believe the Caballa deals with the subject of Fallen Being vs Higher Being as well. And that subject relates to almost everything in Christianity. So I'd say by coincidence it is related.
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A question about the Jews.

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