As a Christian, do you believe that Jews will not be going to Heaven because they do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah? I'm just looking for some feedback on this because my friend and I were talking about it.

Any thoughts?

Unfortunately no, unless they change they will not go to Heaven, Jesus is the only way to the Father. They can't reject him and go to Heaven.

This goes to a question I have had for a LONG time. How does that make sense? I mean ok, take a jew, or muslim, or whatever. You're telling me that they could live a perfect life, put others before themselves, love their neighbors as themselves, do unto others, be as devout to their faith as we are to ours, basiclly be a perfect CHristian(if they were) and when they get to Heaven, God is gonna say, "OK, I KNOW that lived the p[erfect life, and basicaly did everything I said you should do, BUT you didn't SPEFIFICALLY believe in the right version of me, so yeah, you're going to Hell. Sorry, ahve a nice day! NEXT!!"

That makes NO sense to me whatsoever. I think most religions are saying the same things about the same guy. You're Christiuan, you die and see Christ. You're Jewish, you dai and see Yaweh. You're Muslim, you die and see Allah. You're Shintoist, you die and see a rock and a squirrel or some sh*t, I don't know. One God, many faces

So, you believe that the nature and salvation of God/Jesus is found in wisdom, morality and kindness, rather than dogma and legalism? Very interesting.

LastFirstborn wrote:

So, you believe that the nature and salvation of God/Jesus is found in wisdom, morality and kindness, rather than dogma and legalism? Very interesting.

Well, don't egt me wrong, I BELIEVE that Jesus is God's only son. It's a little hard to explain. Like, I think all the major religions are talking about the same way, But Christ is the more direct way to salvation. Like, God sent Him to make it EASIER to be saved. Because, if you live a Christ-like life, you're pretty much in, unless we're severly wrong! lol Does that make sense?

Yes.

SSG Jake wrote:

LastFirstborn wrote:

So, you believe that the nature and salvation of God/Jesus is found in wisdom, morality and kindness, rather than dogma and legalism? Very interesting.

Well, don't egt me wrong, I BELIEVE that Jesus is God's only son. It's a little hard to explain. Like, I think all the major religions are talking about the same way, But Christ is the more direct way to salvation. Like, God sent Him to make it EASIER to be saved. Because, if you live a Christ-like life, you're pretty much in, unless we're severly wrong! lol Does that make sense?

Jesus didn't only come to be the example. He came to be the counter weight for our sins through His death.

No one else died for our sins than Jesus. All men are sinners and for this, without a way out, we deserve punishment. No matter what "god" they worshipped, how good in appearance their lives are, if they do not believe that Jesus died for them, so that their sins may be forgotten, they deserve punishment.

"Good" defers from our standards to God's.
We can't save ourselves.

Hero wrote:

SSG Jake wrote:

LastFirstborn wrote:

So, you believe that the nature and salvation of God/Jesus is found in wisdom, morality and kindness, rather than dogma and legalism? Very interesting.

Well, don't egt me wrong, I BELIEVE that Jesus is God's only son. It's a little hard to explain. Like, I think all the major religions are talking about the same way, But Christ is the more direct way to salvation. Like, God sent Him to make it EASIER to be saved. Because, if you live a Christ-like life, you're pretty much in, unless we're severly wrong! lol Does that make sense?

Jesus didn't only come to be the example. He came to be the counter weight for our sins through His death.

No one else died for our sins than Jesus. All men are sinners and for this, without a way out, we deserve punishment. No matter what "god" they worshipped, how good in appearance their lives are, if they do not believe that Jesus died for them, so that their sins may be forgotten, they deserve punishment.

"Good" defers from our standards to God's.
We can't save ourselves.

No. uh-uh. I refuse to believe that.
First, I refuse to believe that the majority of the people who have ever lived on this earth are in Hell. Secondly, what's in your heart HAS to matter more than just believing in Christ. Othwerwise you're telling me that a family of God-fearing, upstanding Jews are damned to eternal hellfire and suffering, while Fred F**king Phelps is getting into Heaven?! No, sir. I will NOT believe that God is that cut-and-dry about it. What's in your heart HAS to matter. Otherwise, what the hell is the point? Think of it like this:

A man walks up to you on the street and says, "HEY!! Have YOU accepted the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your lord and Savior?! NO??!! The you're going to hell!! I have this book that details all the things the FLying Spaghetti Monster has done, the miricals he has worked, the plan he has laid out for you. What? You belive in some guy named Jesus? Oh, no, man. My savior is WAY better than him. MY saviour is the TRUE way!! You're righteoius life matters not, because the FLying Spaghetti Monster cares not for your good deeds, or the feelings in your heart. Unless you accept him as your Pasta Lord and Carb-Enriched Saviour, ye shall TRULY burn in eternal Hellfire!!1!!1!"

Now, would YOU switch your faith, based on that? No? Then what the hell do you expect a Jew, to? Or a Muslim, or Bhuddist? I could never reject Jesus, and I don't see how you ecpect half the world to do so. This is the only way the world makes sense to me. Otherwise, everything I've ever known about morality goes out the damn window.

Repentance and faith in Christ is the only way that any person can reconciled unto God. At least, if you read the Bible and believe what *it* says. "Accepting Jesus" isn't just blurting out His name once or twice, or associating his name or the word "Christian" with yourself in some passing, fleeting way. Hence Fred Phelps being a reprobate, himself - a cult leader, legalist, Gospel-less loudmouth also in need of repentance and faith.

As for the specific question of the "Jewish people", I *strongly* suggest reading all Romans 9 and 10 in full. God spells out very specifically where someone who is ethnically Jewish stands. Paul's heart was very much for his people (Rom 10:1-2) and the epistle to the Romans as a whole explains all of mankind's dilemma and resolution very thoroughly if one takes the time to read.

I have mixed thoughts on this. It clearly states in scriptures with Christ stating that "no man comes to The Father except through Me.", but I'm not sure on a few things. Did He mean for all time, or did He mean while He was here on earth? What about before Jesus came - I'm sure there are people who lived centuries before Jesus that never had the chance to be introduced to the God-Son concept. Are those people just screwed?

I have a hard time believing that a God that is love, would reject someone who was seeking Him because they didn't have their faith fine tuned to one aspect. ...that aspect having little to do with receiving salvation concept.

To me, it's almost a moot point for me to discuss. I believe Christ as the savior of the world, and He is my Higher Power, and I'm not Jewish.

Whether I'm correct or not, I don't believe I have any place saying "You're going to hell because you don't believe this / accept salvation." no matter how true it is. That's playing the judge and almost being the messenger of damnation.

(Not to mention, a crappy witnessing statement.)

God grades on a curb.

olias wrote:

God grades on a curb.

BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!

I heart the way you put that! ....and I believe I agree.

Hguols wrote:

What about before Jesus came - I'm sure there are people who lived centuries before Jesus that never had the chance to be introduced to the God-Son concept. Are those people just screwed?

There is actually some pretty interesting theories on this. I mean, look at Abraham, he was of a pagan tribe, but God gave him a private revelation becasue he was searching for truth. I beleive somehow that that happens for all, but not all accept it. I know that's hard for us to beleive, but our mind is os finite that we couldn't really understand how that is.

Shamax wrote:

Repentance and faith in Christ is the only way that any person can reconciled unto God. At least, if you read the Bible and believe what *it* says. "Accepting Jesus" isn't just blurting out His name once or twice, or associating his name or the word "Christian" with yourself in some passing, fleeting way. Hence Fred Phelps being a reprobate, himself - a cult leader, legalist, Gospel-less loudmouth also in need of repentance and faith.

As for the specific question of the "Jewish people", I *strongly* suggest reading all Romans 9 and 10 in full. God spells out very specifically where someone who is ethnically Jewish stands. Paul's heart was very much for his people (Rom 10:1-2) and the epistle to the Romans as a whole explains all of mankind's dilemma and resolution very thoroughly if one takes the time to read.

I'm definitely gonna read this in depth and see what you're talking about.

These are some great replies from everyone, by the way!

Again, Romans (chapters 9 and 10 specifically) does a pretty good job of addressing this specifically. As does most of the Old Testament. As for the hypothetical situations brought-up here and there of someone living a perfect life or seeking God honestly outside of Christ, Romans addresses a lot of those situations as well - especially Romans 3:9-20

We're all under the condemnation of the Law as scripture says, whether we allow the God of scripture to hold us accountable (who's God in this picture?) or not. It's only by grace, through faith that we have any hope or assurance of being the "blessed man" of Romans 4:8.

I don't pretend that this is an easy question to wrestle with, but our struggle with it, our objections, and our answers say a lot about our faith and our understanding of God's word and his gospel.

Gorlim (OMW) wrote:

I'm definitely gonna read this in depth and see what you're talking about.

These are some great replies from everyone, by the way!

Just noticed I probably should have added Romans 11 to that as well. That's where Paul's discussion and foundation that's laid in the other chapters gets summed-up. Starting with chapter 12, it's as though Paul is saying "Now, having said all that, THEREFORE in light of everything I've just laid out, offer yourselves as living sacrifices...etc, etc"

The book of Hebrews as a whole is good too, to understand in depth why Jesus had to come to seal the new covenant that God wanted for His People.

Hero wrote:

The book of Hebrews as a whole is good too, to understand in depth why Jesus had to come to seal the new covenant that God wanted for His People.

Absolutely.

Gorlim (OMW) wrote:

As a Christian, do you believe that Jews will not be going to Heaven because they do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah? I'm just looking for some feedback on this because my friend and I were talking about it.

Any thoughts?

There will be many, many Jews in Heaven including Jesus Christ. That includes ancient Jews and Messianic Jews of today. I believe God will accept everyone who truly, with all their heart, follow to the best of their ability whichever faith they choose. There will be 1000's, tens of 1000's, 100's of thousands, and perhaps millions of sincere and earnest believers from all mainstream and non-mainstream denominations. For sake of potential argument I will exclude the so-called Church of Satan and other deviants, extremest, fanatics and zealots. Bottom line, it's all about THE RELATIONSHIP and heart. Only God(Jesus) knows the heart. The rest of us are not to put ourselves in the position of a judge about others salvation.

oldschooldoom wrote:

There will be many, many Jews in Heaven including Jesus Christ. That includes ancient Jews and Messianic Jews of today. I believe God will accept everyone who truly, with all their heart, follow to the best of their ability whichever faith they choose. There will be 1000's, tens of 1000's, 100's of thousands, and perhaps millions of sincere and earnest believers from all mainstream and non-mainstream denominations. For sake of potential argument I will exclude the so-called Church of Satan and other deviants, extremest, fanatics and zealots. Bottom line, it's all about THE RELATIONSHIP and heart. Only God(Jesus) knows the heart. The rest of us are not to put ourselves in the position of a judge about others salvation.

I heart this post.

Hguols wrote:

oldschooldoom wrote:

There will be many, many Jews in Heaven including Jesus Christ. That includes ancient Jews and Messianic Jews of today. I believe God will accept everyone who truly, with all their heart, follow to the best of their ability whichever faith they choose. There will be 1000's, tens of 1000's, 100's of thousands, and perhaps millions of sincere and earnest believers from all mainstream and non-mainstream denominations. For sake of potential argument I will exclude the so-called Church of Satan and other deviants, extremest, fanatics and zealots. Bottom line, it's all about THE RELATIONSHIP and heart. Only God(Jesus) knows the heart. The rest of us are not to put ourselves in the position of a judge about others salvation.

I heart this post.

W3RD

oldschooldoom wrote:

Gorlim (OMW) wrote:

As a Christian, do you believe that Jews will not be going to Heaven because they do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah? I'm just looking for some feedback on this because my friend and I were talking about it.

Any thoughts?

There will be many, many Jews in Heaven including Jesus Christ. That includes ancient Jews and Messianic Jews of today. I believe God will accept everyone who truly, with all their heart, follow to the best of their ability whichever faith they choose. There will be 1000's, tens of 1000's, 100's of thousands, and perhaps millions of sincere and earnest believers from all mainstream and non-mainstream denominations. For sake of potential argument I will exclude the so-called Church of Satan and other deviants, extremest, fanatics and zealots. Bottom line, it's all about THE RELATIONSHIP and heart. Only God(Jesus) knows the heart. The rest of us are not to put ourselves in the position of a judge about others salvation.

Unfortunatly, according to the bible, this is not true.
John 14:6 (New International Version)
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus came to pay our sins, if you dont believe in Him, your sins arent paid and you gotta pay the consequences for them.

Hero wrote:

oldschooldoom wrote:

Gorlim (OMW) wrote:

As a Christian, do you believe that Jews will not be going to Heaven because they do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah? I'm just looking for some feedback on this because my friend and I were talking about it.

Any thoughts?

There will be many, many Jews in Heaven including Jesus Christ. That includes ancient Jews and Messianic Jews of today. I believe God will accept everyone who truly, with all their heart, follow to the best of their ability whichever faith they choose. There will be 1000's, tens of 1000's, 100's of thousands, and perhaps millions of sincere and earnest believers from all mainstream and non-mainstream denominations. For sake of potential argument I will exclude the so-called Church of Satan and other deviants, extremest, fanatics and zealots. Bottom line, it's all about THE RELATIONSHIP and heart. Only God(Jesus) knows the heart. The rest of us are not to put ourselves in the position of a judge about others salvation.

Unfortunatly, according to the bible, this is not true.
John 14:6 (New International Version)
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus came to pay our sins, if you dont believe in Him, your sins arent paid and you gotta pay the consequences for them.

So, you're telling me that the majority of the people are going to hell, EVEN thoguh most of them are deccent, even God fearing people? What kind of God would do that? If God is love, then how is that possible?

Also, just spitballing here, but He said, "except through me." If you go by what I said above, thoe whole, "One God, many faces" thing, then that still stands. Especially if most religions are teaching the same morals, for the most part, and those morals pretty much follow the teaching of Christ, then who's to say they AREN'T going through CHhist?

Hero wrote:

Unfortunatly, according to the bible, this is not true.
John 14:6 (New International Version)
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus came to pay our sins, if you dont believe in Him, your sins arent paid and you gotta pay the consequences for them.

I referenced that verse in an earlier post. ....along with it, the concept of time frame.

Centuries before, there was no Jesus Christ. How could those people go through Jesus when He wasn't born yet? I seriously doubt they knew of Him. Adam and Eve, sorry about your luck, you didn't know Jesus - now burn.

I have a hard time believing those who never had the chance to know Him, are insta-screwed. I also have a hard time believing that the "terms of service" changed / changes for humanity's salvation.
__________________

Within the context of the scriptures, Jesus is talking to his disciples. Jesus starts out comforting them with describing "His Father's house". Specifically, 14:6 is Jesus's reply to Thomas's question of "I don't know where your going. (heaven) Show us the way."

Right after Jesus says no one goes to the father except through Him, Philip says, "Just show us God and it will be enough for us." Jesus replies, "What you talkin' 'bout Philip? I AM GOD."

SO, if Jesus = Key to Salvation, how could God not be the key to salvation since Jesus is God and God is Jesus?

I know in verse 6, that "no one" in Jesus' quote APPEARS pretty cut and dry. Personally, I like the cut and dry APPEARANCE of John 14:14. Jesus says, "You may ask Me for anything in My Name, and I will do it."

I took full advantage of that anything.
I'm still waiting on that pony.

Jesting aside, I believe this "no one" is specifically to His disciples. The "anything" is to his disciples. To me, being strict about this is the equivalent of "Well, he told _______ to the Israelites, I guess I better do it."

No more calendars, no more shaving, no tattoos, no more rare steaks, no more poking bodies at the morgue.... SUCKS!

Hguols wrote:

Hero wrote:

Unfortunatly, according to the bible, this is not true.
John 14:6 (New International Version)
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus came to pay our sins, if you dont believe in Him, your sins arent paid and you gotta pay the consequences for them.

I referenced that verse in an earlier post. ....along with it, the concept of time frame.

Centuries before, there was no Jesus Christ. How could those people go through Jesus when He wasn't born yet? I seriously doubt they knew of Him. Adam and Eve, sorry about your luck, you didn't know Jesus - now burn.

I have a hard time believing those who never had the chance to know Him, are insta-screwed. I also have a hard time believing that the "terms of service" changed / changes for humanity's salvation.
__________________

Within the context of the scriptures, Jesus is talking to his disciples. Jesus starts out comforting them with describing "His Father's house". Specifically, 14:6 is Jesus's reply to Thomas's question of "I don't know where your going. (heaven) Show us the way."

Right after Jesus says no one goes to the father except through Him, Philip says, "Just show us God and it will be enough for us." Jesus replies, "What you talkin' 'bout Philip? I AM GOD."

SO, if Jesus = Key to Salvation, how could God not be the key to salvation since Jesus is God and God is Jesus?

I know in verse 6, that "no one" in Jesus' quote APPEARS pretty cut and dry. Personally, I like the cut and dry APPEARANCE of John 14:14. Jesus says, "You may ask Me for anything in My Name, and I will do it."

I took full advantage of that anything.
I'm still waiting on that pony.

Jesting aside, I believe this "no one" is specifically to His disciples. The "anything" is to his disciples. To me, being strict about this is the equivalent of "Well, he told _______ to the Israelites, I guess I better do it."

Very very interesting post. I can definitely see your point.

However, I have a question for SSG Jake... I've been reading your posts on this topic and I want you to clarify something.

Do you believe that people who live a "good" life and try to do their best with themselves and other people are going to Heaven, regardless of what G(g)od they worship? Whether if it's the Christian God or Allah or Ishtar or whatever?