Mark wrote:

wizardovmetal wrote:

2. How much of your beliefs and practices are based on traditions?

absolutely none of them, there is also a warning in the bible about this, something about not being willing to give up traditions to follow god correctly. i forget the verse.

You don't believe the Bible is the Word of God? Funny, because that belief comes exclusively from ancient Catholic tradition.
As for the verse, Jesus was condemning traditions that contradicted the law of God.

MetL, I owned you in Koine Greek, basically.

no i dont, i beleive the bible is an account of the jews and their experiences with god, new testament is an account of christs life and of the early church. while it is a very helpful tool and is important for all beleivers to study, it is not written by god, it is not the word of god, the bible also explains the word was christ.

So you don't believe the scriptures were inspired by God to be written?

i do

Then it IS the word of God.
And why do we believe it is?
Catholic tradition, which existed before the Bible was completely written.

wizardovmetal wrote:

Mark wrote:

wizardovmetal wrote:

2. How much of your beliefs and practices are based on traditions?

absolutely none of them, there is also a warning in the bible about this, something about not being willing to give up traditions to follow god correctly. i forget the verse.

You don't believe the Bible is the Word of God? Funny, because that belief comes exclusively from ancient Catholic tradition.
As for the verse, Jesus was condemning traditions that contradicted the law of God.

MetL, I owned you in Koine Greek, basically.

no i dont, i beleive the bible is an account of the jews and their experiences with god, new testament is an account of christs life and of the early church. while it is a very helpful tool and is important for all beleivers to study, it is not written by god, it is not the word of god, the bible also explains the word was christ.

The early Church with Saint Peter as the First Pope
had a blanket of unity. Then as they left and went
home rather than they thought, eat the body of Christ
many became pagans as they were before, deep in sin.
The Jews however went back to ancient religious
Moses like practices. As they are still experiencing today.

Vigilance Saints Arise wrote:

wizardovmetal wrote:

Mark wrote:

wizardovmetal wrote:

2. How much of your beliefs and practices are based on traditions?

absolutely none of them, there is also a warning in the bible about this, something about not being willing to give up traditions to follow god correctly. i forget the verse.

You don't believe the Bible is the Word of God? Funny, because that belief comes exclusively from ancient Catholic tradition.
As for the verse, Jesus was condemning traditions that contradicted the law of God.

MetL, I owned you in Koine Greek, basically.

no i dont, i beleive the bible is an account of the jews and their experiences with god, new testament is an account of christs life and of the early church. while it is a very helpful tool and is important for all beleivers to study, it is not written by god, it is not the word of god, the bible also explains the word was christ.

The early Church with Saint Peter as the First Pope
had a blanket of unity. Then as they left and went
home rather than they thought, eat the body of Christ
many became pagans as they were before, deep in sin.
The Jews however went back to ancient religious
Moses like practices. As they are still experiencing today.

Actually, not True. The Early Church were not unified either. They were constantly battling Paganism and Gnosticism seeping into the Beliefs of Christianity. In addition to that, there is no such thing as a Pope and Peter was never the 1st Pope, not in the Early Church, not now. The views of having a Pope in Church are not Biblical and actually contradicts the Scriptures. I am more than willing to prove my point if this leads to a debate in a separate thread.

The non-Messianic Jews never went to Christ, then returned to Moses practices, the Jews outright rejected Christ and still await the coming of the Messiah. (despite the fact that He already came)

That is the Early Church in a Nutshell.

Each Christian Denomination,
believes that their Religious practices and customs are valid
in the eyes of a thousand members of their congregation.
I will not try to list all of their names.

But we are all the Body of Christ, His Church.
Catholics are in this list too as the Historical
Church of Christ with all of our practaces and our traditions.

My Priests that I know, are as Holy as the T.V. Evangelists.

All of the Denominations are of two distinct types:
New day Christians as Baptist Christians, Lutheren Christians
and Catholic Christans who love all of God's people world wide.

The others are still Protestants who have varying degrees of
hate for Catholics, and all things Catholic. They call themselves
according to their Church communities, Enemys of the Pope
and God help them, they reject anything about The Blessed Virgin Mary
and the Lives of Catholic Saints.

So if you are a Christian by name or a practicing evil Protestant
or a Christian Denomination who loves us, Jesus People U.S.A.

Perhaps You will read "John chapter 6" with an open mind, heart
and Soul.

See Read and Hear The Eternal Word Television Network
EWTN.com

Musical Bands come in many Christian of Protestant and devilish
forms, it is heard and read in the Lyrics they teach and pray.

God Bless us every one.

Messianic Judaism is a modern invention, that began in the 19th century.

Of course there was heresy, but there was one church.
No Pope?
So explain...
St. Peter (32-67)
St. Linus (67-76)
St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
St. Clement I (88-97)
St. Evaristus (97-105)
St. Alexander I (105-115)
St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
St. Telesphorus (125-136)
St. Hyginus (136-140)
St. Pius I (140-155)
St. Anicetus (155-166)
St. Soter (166-175)
St. Eleutherius (175-189)
St. Victor I (189-199)
St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
St. Callistus I (217-22)
St. Urban I (222-30)
St. Pontain (230-35)
St. Anterus (235-36)
St. Fabian (236-50)
St. Cornelius (251-53)
St. Lucius I (253-54)
St. Stephen I (254-257)
St. Sixtus II (257-258)
St. Dionysius (260-268)
St. Felix I (269-274)
St. Eutychian (275-283)
St. Caius (283-296) Also called Gaius
St. Marcellinus (296-304)
St. Marcellus I (308-309)
St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
St. Miltiades (311-14)
St. Sylvester I (314-35)
St. Marcus (336)
St. Julius I (337-52)
Liberius (352-66)
St. Damasus I (366-83)
St. Siricius (384-99)
St. Anastasius I (399-401)
St. Innocent I (401-17)
St. Zosimus (417-18)
St. Boniface I (418-22)
St. Celestine I (422-32)
St. Sixtus III (432-40)
St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
St. Hilarius (461-68)
St. Simplicius (468-83)
St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
St. Gelasius I (492-96)
Anastasius II (496-98)
St. Symmachus (498-514)
St. Hormisdas (514-23)
St. John I (523-26)
St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
Boniface II (530-32)
John II (533-35)
St. Agapetus I (535-36) Also called Agapitus I
St. Silverius (536-37)
Vigilius (537-55)
Pelagius I (556-61)
John III (561-74)
Benedict I (575-79)
Pelagius II (579-90)
St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
Sabinian (604-606)
Boniface III (607)
St. Boniface IV (608-15)
St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
Boniface V (619-25)
Honorius I (625-38)
Severinus (640)
John IV (640-42)
Theodore I (642-49)
St. Martin I (649-55)
St. Eugene I (655-57)
St. Vitalian (657-72)
Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
Donus (676-78)
St. Agatho (678-81)
St. Leo II (682-83)
St. Benedict II (684-85)
John V (685-86)
Conon (686-87)
St. Sergius I (687-701)
John VI (701-05)
John VII (705-07)
Sisinnius (708)
Constantine (708-15)
St. Gregory II (715-31)
St. Gregory III (731-41)
St. Zachary (741-52)
Stephen II (752) (Because he died before being consecrated, many authoritative lists omit him)
Stephen III (752-57)
St. Paul I (757-67)
Stephen IV (767-72
Adrian I (772-95)
St. Leo III (795-816)
Stephen V (816-17)
St. Paschal I (817-24)
Eugene II (824-27)
Valentine (827)
Gregory IV (827-44)
Sergius II (844-47)
St. Leo IV (847-55)
Benedict III (855-58)
St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
Adrian II (867-72)
John VIII (872-82)
Marinus I (882-84)
St. Adrian III (884-85)
Stephen VI (885-91)
Formosus (891-96)
Boniface VI (896)
Stephen VII (896-97)
Romanus (897)
Theodore II (897)
John IX (898-900)
Benedict IV (900-03)
Leo V (903)
Sergius III (904-11)
Anastasius III (911-13)
Lando (913-14)
John X (914-28)
Leo VI (928)
Stephen VIII (929-31)
John XI (931-35)
Leo VII (936-39)
Stephen IX (939-42)
Marinus II (942-46)
Agapetus II (946-55)
John XII (955-63)
Leo VIII (963-64)
Benedict V (964)
John XIII (965-72)
Benedict VI (973-74)
Benedict VII (974-83)
John XIV (983-84)
John XV (985-96)
Gregory V (996-99)
Sylvester II (999-1003)
John XVII (1003)
John XVIII (1003-09)
Sergius IV (1009-12)
Benedict VIII (1012-24)
John XIX (1024-32)
Benedict IX (1032-45)
Sylvester III (1045)
Benedict IX (1045)
Gregory VI (1045-46)
Clement II (1046-47)
Benedict IX (1047-48)
Damasus II (1048)
St. Leo IX (1049-54)
Victor II (1055-57)
Stephen X (1057-58)
Nicholas II (1058-61)
Alexander II (1061-73)
St. Gregory VII (1073-85)
Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
Paschal II (1099-1118)
Gelasius II (1118-19)
Callistus II (1119-24)
Honorius II (1124-30)
Innocent II (1130-43)
Celestine II (1143-44)
Lucius II (1144-45)
Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
Anastasius IV (1153-54)
Adrian IV (1154-59)
Alexander III (1159-81)
Lucius III (1181-85)
Urban III (1185-87)
Gregory VIII (1187)
Clement III (1187-91)
Celestine III (1191-98)
Innocent III (1198-1216)
Honorius III (1216-27)
Gregory IX (1227-41)
Celestine IV (1241)
Innocent IV (1243-54)
Alexander IV (1254-61)
Urban IV (1261-64)
Clement IV (1265-68)
Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
Blessed Innocent V (1276)
Adrian V (1276)
John XXI (1276-77)
Nicholas III (1277-80)
Martin IV (1281-85)
Honorius IV (1285-87)
Nicholas IV (1288-92)
St. Celestine V (1294)
Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
Clement V (1305-14)
John XXII (1316-34)
Benedict XII (1334-42)
Clement VI (1342-52)
Innocent VI (1352-62)
Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
Gregory XI (1370-78)
Urban VI (1378-89
Boniface IX (1389-1404)
Innocent VII (1404-06)
Gregory XII (1406-15)
Martin V (1417-31)
Eugene IV (1431-47)
Nicholas V (1447-55)
Callistus III (1455-58)
Pius II (1458-64)
Paul II (1464-71)
Sixtus IV (1471-84)
Innocent VIII (1484-92)
Alexander VI (1492-1503)
Pius III (1503)
Julius II (1503-13)
Leo X (1513-21)
Adrian VI (1522-23)
Clement VII (1523-34)
Paul III (1534-49)
Julius III (1550-55)
Marcellus II (1555)
Paul IV (1555-59)
Pius IV (1559-65)
St. Pius V (1566-72)
Gregory XIII (1572-85)
Sixtus V (1585-90)
Urban VII (1590)
Gregory XIV (1590-91)
Innocent IX (1591)
Clement VIII (1592-1605)
Leo XI (1605)
Paul V (1605-21)
Gregory XV (1621-23)
Urban VIII (1623-44)
Innocent X (1644-55)
Alexander VII (1655-67)
Clement IX (1667-69)
Clement X (1670-76)
Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
Alexander VIII (1689-91)
Innocent XII (1691-1700)
Clement XI (1700-21)
Innocent XIII (1721-24)
Benedict XIII (1724-30)
Clement XII (1730-40)
Benedict XIV (1740-58)
Clement XIII (1758-69)
Clement XIV (1769-74)
Pius VI (1775-99)
Pius VII (1800-23)
Leo XII (1823-29)
Pius VIII (1829-30)
Gregory XVI (1831-46)
Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
Leo XIII (1878-1903)
St. Pius X (1903-14)
Benedict XV (1914-22)
Pius XI (1922-39)
Pius XII (1939-58)
Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
Paul VI (1963-78)
John Paul I (1978)
John Paul II (1978-2005)
Benedict XVI (2005—)

Perfect succession through the years. No Pope in the early church? Study some basic history before making laughable claims like that.
And if you ask, I will provide you mounds of support for the Papacy.

Mark wrote:

Messianic Judaism is a modern invention, that began in the 19th century.

Tell that to Paul, or how about Peter? How about the 12 Apostles/Disciples/etc.? Or how about ANY of the authors of the Scriptures to begin with (sans Luke of course)? Messianic Judaism means a Jew who has found Faith in Yeshua and as thus, a Christian according to what that phrase means.

As you said it best:
Study some basic history before making laughable claims like that.

Mark wrote:

Of course there was heresy, but there was one church.
No Pope?

Alright, this one was a misinterpretation and mainly due to my lack of meaning, so as such I apologize. When I said Pope, I wasn’t referring to that gargantuan list of people you wrote. (Btw, I don’t know if you wrote it or not, but thank you for the list. It’s actually something I can learn about)

When I said Pope, I was referring to the name, the title, the authority, the position that Pope represents. You can’t show me in Scriptures that the Pope was an officially Christened and Sanctioned authority. If you can however in Scriptures, I’m interested in you showing me, as long as it isn’t that Matthew Scripture with Jesus saying the “upon this rock I’ll build my church” Scriptures. That one has been beaten to death so many times.

Mark wrote:

Perfect succession through the years. No Pope in the early church? Study some basic history before making laughable claims like that.
And if you ask, I will provide you mounds of support for the Papacy.

Yes, perfect succession with the majority of them, but the beginnings are still shady and shrouded. And even then, there are things we can discuss about the Papacy that would either force you to change the Catholic views, or change the Popes because not every Pope you wrote fits into what is required of one to become a Pope.

With such an offer, I ask here and now. I wish for the answer to be in another thread to deviate from straying this thread.

Vigilance Saints Arise wrote:

Each Christian Denomination,
believes that their Religious practices and customs are valid
in the eyes of a thousand members of their congregation.
I will not try to list all of their names.

But we are all the Body of Christ, His Church.
Catholics are in this list too as the Historical
Church of Christ with all of our practaces and our traditions.

My Priests that I know, are as Holy as the T.V. Evangelists.

All of the Denominations are of two distinct types:
New day Christians as Baptist Christians, Lutheren Christians
and Catholic Christans who love all of God's people world wide.

The others are still Protestants who have varying degrees of
hate for Catholics, and all things Catholic. They call themselves
according to their Church communities, Enemys of the Pope
and God help them, they reject anything about The Blessed Virgin Mary
and the Lives of Catholic Saints.

So if you are a Christian by name or a practicing evil Protestant
or a Christian Denomination who loves us, Jesus People U.S.A.

Perhaps You will read "John chapter 6" with an open mind, heart
and Soul.

See Read and Hear The Eternal Word Television Network
EWTN.com

Musical Bands come in many Christian of Protestant and devilish
forms, it is heard and read in the Lyrics they teach and pray.

God Bless us every one.

i don't hate catholics, there are alot of good god fearing people who are catholics, then, like every religion and denomination, there are people who practice what i call "churchism" with a basic attitude of "i go to church on sunday, therefore, i am going to heaven" then theres your extremist and the worship of mary and all sorts of other things, the catholic church is notorius for "stealing" pagan traditions and making them "christian" Catholicism also has a dark tyrannical history, but like i said, doesent mean i hate catholicsism in general, just do not approve of some of the beleifs and practices. we are still, one body united under christ nevertheless and it would be foolish to create a separation of it.

oh and the pope looks like lord sidious from starwars i also have no issue with messianic judaism aside from the fact that they still practice the law (well some of them) which is "pouring new wine into old wineskins" but not all of them do that.

Peter is the star of the four Gospels.

Beside Jesus, Peter is in all sorts of situations.

Walking on water with Jesus.

You are the Rock and on this Rock I will build my Church,

and the gates of Hell will not prevail againts it!

Peter do you love me more than these? Yes Lord.

Peter's shadow may fall on one of these, to heal them.

Peter, James and John witness
Christ's transfiguration.

Peter's Mother in law is healed by Christ.

Peter runs to the
empty tomb and goes inside to witness

and who do you say that I AM? You are the
Messiah the Son of the Living God.

The books 1st Peter and 2nd Peter.

There is much more! sutch as Peter's
speech at Pentecost.

Ever see the Movie "Jesus of Nazareth"
on You Tube?

EWTN.com

Death over Life wrote:

Vigilance Saints Arise wrote:

wizardovmetal wrote:

Mark wrote:

wizardovmetal wrote:

2. How much of your beliefs and practices are based on traditions?

absolutely none of them, there is also a warning in the bible about this, something about not being willing to give up traditions to follow god correctly. i forget the verse.

You don't believe the Bible is the Word of God? Funny, because that belief comes exclusively from ancient Catholic tradition.
As for the verse, Jesus was condemning traditions that contradicted the law of God.

MetL, I owned you in Koine Greek, basically.

no i dont, i beleive the bible is an account of the jews and their experiences with god, new testament is an account of christs life and of the early church. while it is a very helpful tool and is important for all beleivers to study, it is not written by god, it is not the word of god, the bible also explains the word was christ.

The early Church with Saint Peter as the First Pope
had a blanket of unity. Then as they left and went
home rather than they thought, eat the body of Christ
many became pagans as they were before, deep in sin.
The Jews however went back to ancient religious
Moses like practices. As they are still experiencing today.

Actually, not True. The Early Church were not unified either. They were constantly battling Paganism and Gnosticism seeping into the Beliefs of Christianity. In addition to that, there is no such thing as a Pope and Peter was never the 1st Pope, not in the Early Church, not now. The views of having a Pope in Church are not Biblical and actually contradicts the Scriptures. I am more than willing to prove my point if this leads to a debate in a separate thread.

The non-Messianic Jews never went to Christ, then returned to Moses practices, the Jews outright rejected Christ and still await the coming of the Messiah. (despite the fact that He already came)

That is the Early Church in a Nutshell.

The early Church had the desire to have the breaking
of bread "The Mass" People would preach in synagogues

and on the streets as traveling Prophets of Christ.
Like Music Ministry.

The wealthy would sell their land and property to
support the poor and those in need.

Priests, Bishops, and Men and Women of God lived together
in Marrage and Virginity.

The people would preach, telling old and new storys of Jesus.
As Peter and others would write letters and look after

God's "Catholic Universal Church."
There were sinners and Saints as there is now.
The Catolic Church is:

One, Holy, Catholic "Universal" and Apostolic Church.

The Pope is the Leader of Christ's Church on Earth.
Just like his historic Pope Brothers.

EWTN.com will give you all the answers you need.

Well, I think this topic has been thoroughly raped from a theological standpoint.

The question for the day is,

Did aspects of spirituality or aspects of religion turn this thread into a gaping hole?

._.


....easy enough for me to answer. Thanks trephining on attempting to re-rail this.