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 Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?

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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 7:52 pm

What do you think?

Is it ok to hate satan and demons... ?

Cause we find elsewhere in scripture that we are not to hate even our enemies ( that does not mean we have to like them , of course ).. and that if we do not forgive them.. we ourselves cannot be forgiven. In other words , resentment according to the teachings of Christ and the apostles is unacceptable.

Does this rule end with humans or continue on to spiritual beings as well.. like Satan and the Fallen Angels?

And another question.. if we have a strong hatred for satan, who is harmed more by it ? Satan or us?
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MetalMatt



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 7:55 pm

Kamerad Ash wrote:
What do you think?

Is it ok to hate satan and demons... ?

Cause we find elsewhere in scripture that we are not to hate even our enemies ( that does not mean we have to like them , of course ).. and that if we do not forgive them.. we ourselves cannot be forgiven. In other words , resentment according to the teachings of Christ and the apostles is unacceptable.

Does this rule end with humans or continue on to spiritual beings as well.. like Satan and the Fallen Angels?
you know, that is a dang good question. Personally I think we are supposed to hate the devil, because the devil represents sin, he is the accuser and tempter...and we are to hate sin

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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 7:58 pm

Do you Want to hate Satan? Or is hating him just what seems the right thing to do?


Cause I think it's only actual Hate if it is something you Want to do..

Personally, I have no interest in hating Satan or demons.. and not becaues I don't extremely dislike them.. but because I know from experience that having hatred towards anything makes me ill... physically and spiritually.

And to add to that point.. I wonder if Satan doesn't want us to hate him as thoroughly as possible.. if it is true that hatred eats away at a man.
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wizardovmetal



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 9:20 pm

Kamerad Ash wrote:
What do you think?

Is it ok to hate satan and demons... ?

Cause we find elsewhere in scripture that we are not to hate even our enemies ( that does not mean we have to like them , of course ).. and that if we do not forgive them.. we ourselves cannot be forgiven. In other words , resentment according to the teachings of Christ and the apostles is unacceptable.

Does this rule end with humans or continue on to spiritual beings as well.. like Satan and the Fallen Angels?

And another question.. if we have a strong hatred for satan, who is harmed more by it ? Satan or us?

nope, also keep in mind satan fullfilled gods creation plan, or part of it atleast.
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FireProphet



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 9:53 pm

I would think it's ok. Depending on the extent to which you are consumed it could be really dumb, and it may be dumb anyway.

I think we represent sin more than the devil. So, I don't even see the point in focusing on satan. Do most of us even have time to hate him? We are the source of our problems, the Blood of Christ is the big picture eternal solution. Being intentional about how we live, following the example of Jesus, applying biblical principles to life, and being responsible as best we can are the solutions for our day to day troubles in life. I feel no need to make satan a scapegoat.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 10:26 pm

Good post Ash.

Like many emotions, hate has many forms.

I think if someone had a general loathing and disgust toward things evil, I don't see a problem with that. That's almost expected to a certain degree.

If someone was ridden with HATE, abhorring to the point that it actually interferes with good or brings the person down, that's bad.

This is something that's up to the individual to know through rigorous honesty.

Those are my comments.
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Death over Life



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 10:31 pm

Kamerad Ash wrote:
What do you think?

Is it ok to hate satan and demons... ?

Cause we find elsewhere in scripture that we are not to hate even our enemies ( that does not mean we have to like them , of course ).. and that if we do not forgive them.. we ourselves cannot be forgiven. In other words , resentment according to the teachings of Christ and the apostles is unacceptable.

Does this rule end with humans or continue on to spiritual beings as well.. like Satan and the Fallen Angels?

And another question.. if we have a strong hatred for satan, who is harmed more by it ? Satan or us?

Personally on the question, I am a big NO! We are called to love our enemies as you said.

In addition to that, Matthew also does say that what you do to the least of these, you do to me as well. The only individual who is allowed to Truly Hate Satan is God, and that is because God is the Judge, not us. And, I'll be honest with you, I don't believe God Truly Hates Satan either. (Note, when I say Satan, I don't believe 1 demon that is everywhere, I believe Satan is an adjective, not a noun)

With that being said as well, the True relationship between God and the demons is perfectly shown in Job 1. They are still obedient servants as well. Just because they rebelled did not mean they became greater than God. It's very weird because, while being the greatest of enemies, God and the 1/3 demons are also the greatest of friends and the 1/3 demons are also the greatest servants as well. Almost of a dualist kind of view, then you also have Scriptures that say God hides himself in the darkness.

As for the 2nd question, simple: the answer is us because that is what Satan wants us to do. Satan wants us to hate him, so much to the point that it blinds us. Satan knows that hatred will only corrupt, and even if it's to Him, the hatred is still going to corrupt.
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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 10:48 pm

yes.
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FireProphet



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 10:50 pm

Death over Life wrote:
Darth Vader knows that hatred will only corrupt, and even if it's to Him, the hatred is still going to corrupt.
fixed.
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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 10:52 pm

How does loving Satan make us better spiritually? I think hate may be the wrong word. I think we should be in a state of battle with Satan, but a furious rageful hate is antithetical to the Christian life.
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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 11:02 pm

olias wrote:
How does loving Satan make us better spiritually? I think hate may be the wrong word. I think we should be in a state of battle with Satan, but a furious rageful hate is antithetical to the Christian life.

That's silly. You don't have to love someone to also not hate them.

Theri si just consequences for actions and state of existance. If a murderer is too be executed for murder.. you don't have to hate him to put him to death.

War is the perfect example of this.. throughout the ages enemies who fought skillfully have admired the other.. in spite of the fact that they were enemies. Like when Patton remarked after seeing Rommel's panzer division.. that he wished he had them "working" for him. Then he preceded to do his job and kill his enemy.

Or when Richard the Lionheart and his crusaders were fighting larger numbers of Mohammedans during the second crusade and one of the scribes of the Muslims wrote that he had never seen such a fearful and mighty group fo warrioirs and wrote that they seemed to have supernatural power.

Anyways.. yea.. I'm not saying we should have respect for Satan.. of course not.. but that one can also acknowledge the greatest of foes as being what he is without having to hate him ( ot IT).


Last edited by Kamerad Ash on Fri May 28, 2010 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 11:08 pm

I was simply making a point. It's funny because the military example you used was something that came to mind, but you beat me to it.


Last edited by olias on Fri May 28, 2010 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Death over Life



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 11:13 pm

FireProphet wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
Darth Vader knows that hatred will only corrupt, and even if it's to Him, the hatred is still going to corrupt.
fixed.

I personally apologize for my lack of humor. Still cool though.

olias wrote:
How does loving Satan make us better spiritually? I think hate may be the wrong word. I think we should be in a state of battle with Satan, but a furious rageful hate is antithetical to the Christian life.

As hate is the wrong word to describe, so is the word love here. Which love that Scripture is speaking of, I'll have to go back, but I'm pretty sure it isn't talking of the worshipping kind of love. I think it is speaking of respect, and care about kind of love.

How loving something as low as a demon help improves our spirituality is it does cause us to be more loving to others despite their obvoius or not so obvious flaws. If the demons wish to fight with God, that is there choice, but as the Apostle Paul has spoken: Do not fight evil with evil. Instead, overcome evil with love. Love is what will destroy sin by the end of the night.
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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 11:17 pm

Yeah, I'll grant love was the wrong to use. My bad.
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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 11:19 pm

The Love that the scripture refers to when it says to Love your enemies.. is the Kind of Love that wishes the best outcome for someone.. regardless of whether you "like" them or not.


For example.. if they are your worst enemy.. and you love them.. you will give them a swift death rather than torture them.

If they are a mass murderer.. you will pray for God's mercy for them when they are being executed.

In neither case.. do you necessarily like the person.. at all. But it is the sort of divine love of Christ that comes to those who receive His grace.

Lest we forget we were all the enemies of God..and he sent his Son to die in our place.. simply because he Loved us in spite of being his enemy!

Thus we are told.. Love your enemy. Pray for those who persecute you.. forgive those who trespass against you. etc.


Last edited by Kamerad Ash on Fri May 28, 2010 11:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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olias



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Fri May 28, 2010 11:21 pm

You do for him what he wouldn't do for you. The perfect love in other words. Razz
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oldschooldoom



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Sat May 29, 2010 12:23 pm

Hate, such a strong word.

I despise, loathe, and am repulsed at what the coward known as satan has done.
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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Sat May 29, 2010 7:17 pm

I don't see how Satan is a coward.. he is really just the ultimate egotist.

He is, in hte angel world, say what Hitler was in the human world. And I don't think we can say that HItler was a coward either.. taking on Russia, Uk and the United States. We might call him Stupid.. as with Satan.. but I don't see how we can call him.. or more properly- It, a coward.

Was not his Pride the cause of everything that happened?

But I wouldn't call the angel who according to ancient Jewish texts.. was once one of the highest and mightiest angels in heaven.. a coward. He is too much for even most Holy Angels to contend with.. according to many texts as well, except for maybe Michael. He must be dealt with by God.. he is too much for us. I mean. look at what the Son of God had to deal with just to get "the keys of Life and Death" from him..

Satan known all the "rules" and better than any mortal.. that's for sure. This is depicted well when he comes before God in the book of Job.

Thus his famous title, of course, the Accuser.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Sat May 29, 2010 7:46 pm

Kamerad Ash wrote:
I don't see how Satan is a coward.. he is really just the ultimate egotist.

He is, in hte angel world, say what Hitler was in the human world. And I don't think we can say that HItler was a coward either.. taking on Russia, Uk and the United States. We might call him Stupid.. as with Satan.. but I don't see how we can call him.. or more properly- It, a coward.

Was not his Pride the cause of everything that happened?

But I wouldn't call the angel who according to ancient Jewish texts.. was once one of the highest and mightiest angels in heaven.. a coward. He is too much for even most Holy Angels to contend with.. according to many texts as well, except for maybe Michael. He must be dealt with by God.. he is too much for us. I mean. look at what the Son of God had to deal with just to get "the keys of Life and Death" from him..

Satan known all the "rules" and better than any mortal.. that's for sure. This is depicted well when he comes before God in the book of Job.

Thus his famous title, of course, the Accuser.

Mind if I ask where you got your sources from?

Why I say that is this sounds very traditional which I disagree with, and with that being said, I'm not sure if the sources are the same or different.

When I have read all the parts dealing with Satan, I see it as more or less of a demon, or many demons, or simply, an accuser. Remember, I see Satan not as a noun or person, but as a title, which as you said: Accuser.

From what I have seen in Scriptures, there is no duality belief in Christianity. There is no God vs. Satan as is popularly portrayed. It is God, then under God: Angels/Man vs. 1/3 fallen angels.

From everything I've garnered, there wasn't 1 highest angel of all who rebelled and influenced the rest to betray, all 1/3 betrayed at the same time. I don't wish to make this a debate, but I'd like to know where the view came from is all.

If needs be, I can make a separate thread for debating on Satan.
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Kamerad Ash



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Sat May 29, 2010 9:42 pm

It comsfrom the oral history that was pre written word.. carried by the ancietn Jews.. and was writtenin many hebrew texts after writing came along.. the Bibkle refers to the subject as well.. although less specifically,

I never said that Satan was equal to God.. no such thing. I said he knows the Rules.. i.e rules of God which are the rules of the universe.. well.

We see the devil of course has many names.. usually each with a specific character trait in mind. But I disagre with thoe that think that every name represents a different being.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Sat May 29, 2010 10:06 pm

Hate in general only serves to degrade the clarity within the mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Sat May 29, 2010 10:20 pm

Kamerad Ash wrote:
It comsfrom the oral history that was pre written word.. carried by the ancietn Jews.. and was writtenin many hebrew texts after writing came along.. the Bibkle refers to the subject as well.. although less specifically,

Mind revealing them so I may properly evaluate? At the moment I have only the Scriptures here, and this may or may not have something to do with this.

Kamerad Ash wrote:

I never said that Satan was equal to God.. no such thing. I said he knows the Rules.. i.e rules of God which are the rules of the universe.. well.

You are correct, but I never said that you said that. That was something that sounded more traditionalism and it was the Traditional Christianity that usually elevates Satan as equal or greater than God.

I wished to ask on the sources, because I assumed you got the "Satan was the highest angel before the fall" from Isaiah, which was describing a Babylonian King and not a Spiritual Entity here.

Kamerad Ash wrote:

We see the devil of course has many names.. usually each with a specific character trait in mind. But I disagre with thoe that think that every name represents a different being.

Correct on this one. I myself don't see the word Satan as a noun, which is what we are describing. The other names like Baal, Mammon, Beezlebub, are a great discussion for another time, but I don't see all these names = 1 Super Satan either.

From what I have garnered though, outside of tradition, where we do get our view of Satan and the demons from Scriptures are actually very vague. The Bible only really gives us that demons possess and tempt people, and that the demons are the 1/3 of angels who rebelled and lost in the Battle in Heaven, which then the angels were kicked out of Heaven and now reside on Earth. The ending place for them is Tartaros, or the abyss, and that is about all that's been given of them.

Anything else that has been spoken of, as you said, you have to go outside of the current 66 Books and into the other Books, like with the Nephilim for example.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Sat May 29, 2010 11:05 pm

I forgot to add selfish and prideful to describe the fall of the most beautiful and intelligent angel formerly known as Lucifer.
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Death over Life



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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:26 am

oldschooldoom wrote:
I forgot to add selfish and prideful to describe the fall of the most beautiful and intelligent angel formerly known as Lucifer.

Babylonian King, not angel. If it really were angel, then Isaiah 14 would make absolutely no sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Is the Christian supposed to hate Satan?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:18 pm

no that was refering to satan the babylonian king was not in the garden of eden firstly, dol, you seem to not believe in a "satan", are my thoughts on that correct?
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