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Jim

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:03 pm

@LV good post brother.

And i totally agree with you there about the people problem.

Next problem is, i've never experienced anything of God. like being spoken too etc. When it feels like everyone has.
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BryneVampyr

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:14 pm

My husband hasn't ever experienced God that way. Not everyone does.
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Hguols

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:26 pm

Jim wrote:
Next problem is, i've never experienced anything of God. like being spoken too etc. When it feels like everyone has.

Get rid of this-

"I dont think there is an answer to the question. or its because i dont want to hear it".

-and you will.

God doesn't play hard to get. If you truly seek Him, you'll find Him.
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Saint Raven

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:35 pm

Jim wrote:

Next problem is, i've never experienced anything of God. like being spoken too etc. When it feels like everyone has.

I haven't ... at the church I currently go to no one really seems to talk about things like that at all, but at a previous one they made a HUGE big deal about 'feeling' things and random 'spiritual' things. It definitely felt like I was looked down upon because I had never spoken in tongues or whatever (not only had I never done it, I had no desire to ever do it and don't believe doing it would have benefited me in any way). Changing churches was definitely something I was happy about.
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:21 pm

Jim wrote:
@LV good post brother.

And i totally agree with you there about the people problem.

Next problem is, i've never experienced anything of God. like being spoken too etc. When it feels like everyone has.

What i have been told by people where they have experienced God and those who have never experienced God, it goes back to the corporate understanding of God, i.e. their church. If there Church is very intune with teaching God and making God a focus, i.e. that God can do things in this world, that is they fully believe it and expect it.

Those that tend to think that God can not do things in our world, never experience God.

One example from a professor: a pastor he knew had a heart attack, a massive one that put him out of commission. He taught that God never healed, etc. After the heart attack God told him he was going to heal him. The pastor said "I do not believe you heal anymore" and God told him "That is OK, I am going to heal you anyway". As the story goes this presented a problem to him. How was he going to explain this to his church? The logical conclusion was theologically he should have died, it would have been easier to explain. But he told the church and brought in a preacher who knew and taught on the Holy Spirit, a four day event turned into an 18 week event straight.

So it goes back to the faith and assumption of the person, Does one really expect God to do something. If there is doubt, that could stop God from doing something.
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Jim

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:23 pm

Saint Raven wrote:
Jim wrote:

Next problem is, i've never experienced anything of God. like being spoken too etc. When it feels like everyone has.

I haven't ... at the church I currently go to no one really seems to talk about things like that at all, but at a previous one they made a HUGE big deal about 'feeling' things and random 'spiritual' things. It definitely felt like I was looked down upon because I had never spoken in tongues or whatever (not only had I never done it, I had no desire to ever do it and don't believe doing it would have benefited me in any way). Changing churches was definitely something I was happy about.

well then, if i don't feel anything, and don't believe a lot of it. why bother? it doesnt seem logical to believe in Christianity
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:30 pm

Maybe BB isn't the best place to go for spiritual reinvigoration.
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wizardovmetal

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:53 pm

well if it wasnt for you guys tearing my beleifs apart i would still be a satanist, you proved to me nothing adds up.
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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:00 pm

Jim wrote:
Saint Raven wrote:
Jim wrote:

Next problem is, i've never experienced anything of God. like being spoken too etc. When it feels like everyone has.

I haven't ... at the church I currently go to no one really seems to talk about things like that at all, but at a previous one they made a HUGE big deal about 'feeling' things and random 'spiritual' things. It definitely felt like I was looked down upon because I had never spoken in tongues or whatever (not only had I never done it, I had no desire to ever do it and don't believe doing it would have benefited me in any way). Changing churches was definitely something I was happy about.

well then, if i don't feel anything, and don't believe a lot of it. why bother? it doesnt seem logical to believe in Christianity

Christianity is a philosophy, and philosophies won't necessarily give anyone a certain "feeling", although if someone finds enlightenment in a philosophy, of course that will lead to feeling well. I think that's what the joy/peace/spiritual experience of God is.
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:10 pm

LastFirstborn wrote:


Christianity is a philosophy, and philosophies won't necessarily give anyone a certain "feeling", although if someone finds enlightenment in a philosophy, of course that will lead to feeling well. I think that's what the joy/peace/spiritual experience of God is.

Christianity is not a philosophy, at least not in its basic core, though many have turned Christianity into a philosophy of sorts.

Christianity is set up as a relation between God > Christ > Man. But man has corrupted the "Christ" part and have inserted their own beliefs into how to get to God or experience God.

Which is why some say "if you have not spoken in tongues than God has not saved you" or "If you are not a member of ____ Church, than you are not saved".

Christians have insert various forms of idols into their system, and then tell people that they must experience God in that way or there is something wrong with them.

In that case they have created a subjective philosophy based on experience for salvation to occur.
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wizardovmetal

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:32 pm

exactly, you should be able to feel gods presence in your own home, even if you belong to no church, and no "philosiphy" thats why i said forget what you have been taught and just read your bible and stick with that. there really are no alternate interpretations, the bible is pretty clear.
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ELAN

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:23 pm

BryneVampyr wrote:
My husband hasn't ever experienced God that way. Not everyone does.

I never did either until last year. I always wanted something to happen like that but it never happened until I least expected it.

I don't really feel it is necessary for anyone to 'feel' these things... it just helps, I guess.
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Kamerad Ash

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:46 pm

I've experienced the presence of God in very very powerful ways.. both as a young kid and later as a young adult... there will be long periods of time when it seems he is distant.. but I know that really it is me that is distancing myself from God ( too a certain extent).. because my actions are not wholly under my own control.

When I accepted Christ as an adult... I witnessed literally the holy spirit descend upon me as a dove.. and experienced exacly what CHrist told the woman at the well.. about how He is like a well overflowing.

What it feels like more than anything.. is like you finally are what were always meant to be.. it completes you.. creates wholeness.. but not just completion.. more that completion. It is an Overflowing Completeness.... because God is just bigger and more than any mere vessel or mere created soul can contain.

I literally could feel God seeing through my eyes.. and experiencing his Creation through the unique perspective that is myself.

That is what each of us is.. a unique vantage point from which God can experience Himself and His Creation and Created Beings.. in unique and mysterious ways.

I've known God long enough to know that when it seems He is not near.. He is still near and when it seems He is forsaking me.. he is usually closer than ever.

I don't believe we should judge people for not experiencing God. We have no business in deciding how and when one can experience God.

..
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Jim

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:30 am

@Ash

Congratulations...

nuked
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eternalmystery

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:55 am

If anyone becomes a Christian for their gf/bf or any other person, then their faith is based on a flawed human person, and not on Christ. End of line. I know this may sound a tad bit harsh to some, and I don't intend for it to, but this is the truth, and whether or not anyone wants to face this is their issue.

Look, I have literally been kicked out of churches as soon as I walked in the door, even without having previously been there. I have been belittled, slandered, ridiculed, etc., by people claiming to be Christians, and none of it has swayed me one bit. I make provision for the fact that people are human, and therefore will mess up and wrong people and do all sorts of bad things. People who let other people's wrongdoings and such direct their life and the way they think so much as to cause them to have serious issues with all sorts of things really need to take a step away, take a few deep breaths, and realize this simple important fact: People are human.

And seriously. Do not be so naive as to think that only Christians are capable of wronging people in this manner. I have seen blatant and very outspoken non-believers do the same, and a lot of times, much worse, with absolutely no remorse for their actions.
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Hguols

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:58 am

I like the term "spiritual awakening" - it's like we were asleep before! (which is definitely an accurate term)

There are 3 key parts/virtues absolutely necessary to have this awakening, this spiritual experience.

Honesty, Open-mindedness and Willingness.

Anyone not willing to seek Him, not open-minded to answers or not rigorously honest with themselves, they will never awaken to God.
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Jim

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:34 pm

eternalmystery wrote:
If anyone becomes a Christian for their gf/bf or any other person, then their faith is based on a flawed human person, and not on Christ. End of line.

You've never been in love then...
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Hguols

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Jim wrote:
eternalmystery wrote:
If anyone becomes a Christian for their gf/bf or any other person, then their faith is based on a flawed human person, and not on Christ. End of line.

You've never been in love then...

I have. Love (especially any kind where thrusting could be involved) can be quite blind and stupid.
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BryneVampyr

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:01 pm

Quote :
Quote :

If anyone becomes a Christian for their gf/bf or any other person, then their faith is based on a flawed human person, and not on Christ. End of line.


You've never been in love then...


huh? So, if you are in love, then the person is suddenly not flawed?


I think there is a difference between becoming a Christian for a bf/gf and becoming a Christian because of a bf/gf.


Becoming a Christian just to make the other person happy...basically doing it for them isn't really becoming a Christian. But becoming a Christian because of an other person can be genuine. People influence us, and share their faith with us and that is how we come to faith, ourselves.

But...it can get mixed up. Maybe a person starts out by just doing the whole church thing for someone, but, overtime, a genuine faith emerges. But that person doubts himself because his original motive for getting involved with Christianity wasn't perfect.
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eternalmystery

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:22 pm

Jim wrote:
eternalmystery wrote:
If anyone becomes a Christian for their gf/bf or any other person, then their faith is based on a flawed human person, and not on Christ. End of line.

You've never been in love then...

Actually I have. And none of them were perfect. They were just as flawed and fallible as I was due to the fact that they were human.

If you become a Christian because of the example they lead as believers, and then come to faith not because you want to please them or score points on their scale of how they view you, but rather because you have witnessed a Godly example and want and desire to be that way, then it would be genuine. But trying to be Christian because they asked you to or want you to, or because you want to please THEM instead of God, shows that a human being is your idol, and your eyes are not on Christ.

I'm just saying this to help and give advice, and this isn't just for Jim. It's for everyone, because anybody is prone to fall into this.
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Jim

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:49 pm

BryneVampyr wrote:
Quote :
Quote :

If anyone becomes a Christian for their gf/bf or any other person, then their faith is based on a flawed human person, and not on Christ. End of line.


You've never been in love then...

Maybe a person starts out by just doing the whole church thing for someone, but, overtime, a genuine faith emerges. But that person doubts himself because his original motive for getting involved with Christianity wasn't perfect.

i think that hits the nail on the head
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BryneVampyr

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:55 pm

Well, I don't think any of us come to Christianity with perfect motives. But God takes us as is, so-to-speak.
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wizardovmetal

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:42 am

Kamerad Ash wrote:
I've experienced the presence of God in very very powerful ways.. both as a young kid and later as a young adult... there will be long periods of time when it seems he is distant.. but I know that really it is me that is distancing myself from God ( too a certain extent).. because my actions are not wholly under my own control.

When I accepted Christ as an adult... I witnessed literally the holy spirit descend upon me as a dove.. and experienced exacly what CHrist told the woman at the well.. about how He is like a well overflowing.

What it feels like more than anything.. is like you finally are what were always meant to be.. it completes you.. creates wholeness.. but not just completion.. more that completion. It is an Overflowing Completeness.... because God is just bigger and more than any mere vessel or mere created soul can contain.

I literally could feel God seeing through my eyes.. and experiencing his Creation through the unique perspective that is myself.

That is what each of us is.. a unique vantage point from which God can experience Himself and His Creation and Created Beings.. in unique and mysterious ways.

I've known God long enough to know that when it seems He is not near.. He is still near and when it seems He is forsaking me.. he is usually closer than ever.

I don't believe we should judge people for not experiencing God. We have no business in deciding how and when one can experience God.

..

interesting, i experienced tha same things, i guess you can say about
Quote :
I literally could feel God seeing through my eyes.. and experiencing his Creation through the unique perspective that is myself.

That is what each of us is.. a unique vantage point from which God can experience Himself and His Creation and Created Beings.. in unique and mysterious ways.
when i experienced this, it was like a door in my consciousness had been opened, it really is mind blowing in the least. you out of the blue understand things and the universe, life, etc, it all makes sense, and you certainly cant explain it to an atheist or someone who has never felt it because it is not a fleshly perception, there is no physical comparison.
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