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wizardovmetal

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:23 am

ELAN wrote:
I just read the Scriptures and go off of what God instills in me. While I will agree with some theologians on some matters, and more or less call myself a Trinitarian, I will say that 90 percent of modern theology is something I do not care one bit about.

If you ask God for interpretation of a vague point in the Scriptures, and earnestly seek its meaning, it will come to you. You don't need authors or 'learned' scholars answering for you what the Creator could answer inerrantly.

In fact, I almost see it as a bit weak to base one's majority of spiritual knowledge on theology alone. So many people make theology out to be more important than Christ Himself... and this is heretical.
Around here, modern 'theologians' are studying at the Yale School of Divinity, and will eventually write their papers, essays, and books. However, many of them aren't even saved. Just agnostic or 'spiritual', which isn't enough for me, personally. We also have a church around here with an atheist youth pastor. My point? In a modern age where faith in Christ doesn't matter so much in order to be a theologian, you really need to be careful who you can trust.

All these people's 'doctrinal' debating is senseless, in my opinion. Nobody is ever going to convince an entire denomination that their way of thinking is incorrect.



...The second I get flamed for saying my opinion in this is the second I am going to be gone from here for awhile.

exactly, i dont need people to teach me what the scriptures mean, God does. this is one of the most interesting things i experienced after coming out of satanism and back into christianity, this time i gave it my all and was more sincere then ever, and god bestowed knowledge of "unseen" things i had never understood before, very hard to explain. as the scriptures say, i am not subject to any mans judgement, for i have the mind of christ.
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therockismighty

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:25 am

@ DOL,

yep some what they are, but they are more in tune with where I am at and see my "fruit" in person.

Some people are far more advanced in their knowledge and understandings... I would rather glean off them to be honest.

I love chatting, discussing and sharing online, but I do not go online to seek what I want to know... let me put it better- I have resources and people to go to in my offline life, thus not needing to delve into online theology as much.

You so cannot tell what tone of voice someone has, eye contact, inflection, words used, body language etc.... it makes it harder to get a legit message across... but I do believe it works for some, so that is cool as well.
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wizardovmetal

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:14 am

it works for me considering the area i live in is truly a god forsaken witchcraft state, this place is like my church lol.
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Jim

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:56 am

i think what you all seem to be describing is 3 main things

read bible by yourself
pray to god
ask spirit to guide

been there and done it all over...

and over...

and over...

and over...

never got me anywhere. I dont think there is an answer to the question.
or its because i dont want to hear it
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:36 am

Jim wrote:
i think what you all seem to be describing is 3 main things

read bible by yourself
pray to god
ask spirit to guide

been there and done it all over...

and over...

and over...

and over...

never got me anywhere. I dont think there is an answer to the question.
or its because i dont want to hear it

There is. I think what the questions you are having are the kind of questions that only you are going to be able to answer. Then again though, I do think soul-searching and questioning is a blessing. Whenever the answers may come, they will come. Just see how long it took me for my answers to come. It does tend to find out hidden values that it teaches, like patience for example. I'm not saying you are impatient, but it's one of those life-long journeys. Then again, if there is anything specific you need help on, just ask. Saying you have a problem or are confused and don't reveal anything doesn't get you anywhere.

With all honesty, part of why I originally left was because I was in your position and everybody was shrugging it off and saying don't worry about what you believe. I asked for help many times and got none, yet everyone wanted me to believe what they wanted me to believe and basically I got fed up with the hypocrisy of the Christianity where I lived.
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Hguols

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:16 pm

Jim wrote:
i think what you all seem to be describing is 3 main things

read bible by yourself
pray to god
ask spirit to guide

been there and done it all over...

and over...

and over...

and over...

never got me anywhere. I dont think there is an answer to the question.
or its because i dont want to hear it

LISTEN. That's one of the most important aspects of spirituality.

Asking God something, throwing up your hands hours/days later saying "THIS ISN'T WORKING!" is a result of NOT LISTENING. God truly does speak, and I'm not talking the auditory form of speaking.

Here's an example. Pray for patience. Sure as deodorant, God will put someone or something into your life to teach it to you. After all, patience is a learned virtue. Until I figured this out, I prayed for patience (because I was waiting for something) and "IT WASN'T WORKING!!!!1".

Well, actually, it was. Patience or not, I still had to wait - the determining factor was whether or not I was freaking out about it. ...and it took some time. That is just one example of many.

If you get a bright white-flash life-impacting answer from God, I envy you. Those are few and far between. For the most part, God "seeps in" after a while. Sometimes I don't even realize I had the answer all along until I look back.

(Almost an "Everything I went looking for I went looking with" type thing.)

Also, God cares about the details, so get specific.

Here's a bad example of being specific. "God, I want to be happy." Happiness isn't a learned virtue, or even something that can be willed. (I have a better chance of willing myself not to poop ever again than willing myself to be happy)

Happiness is actually a byproduct of, for the most part, doing God's will. What's God's will? Well pray, ask, and LISTEN. ...and then apply it to your life! I can attest to this, because I am happy!

I hope some of this makes sense and helps you out Jim.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:57 pm

Consecration through sanctification is a key aspect of Christianity that isn't being spoken enough in my opinion. A relationship with God is basically nonexistent until you actually live the life of a living sacrifice for God. Where you live in consecration through sanctification. Why this is important is because God is so pure and we are so dirty. By staying faithful and obediant, we get closer to God and can therefore be guided by Him more clearly. As we sin more and more, we walk away and it's much harder to hear God.

For God to guide His People, we must sanctify ourselves for Him.
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:08 pm

I understand what Jim is saying, though I can not relate to it.

I do know that many Christians, especially those who have been a Christian for awhile and have their own pattern of studying and their own brand of tradition. They tend to want people to follow what they do, believing it is the best way to God.

One such example is that one must pray for two hours a day and read the bible for two hours a day, when this happens one has completed a check and they are on their way to being like them "a mature Christian".

They do not tend to take into account that people are different, that some do not have the means or time to delve that deep.

I know I am on the scholarly side and tend to write in that manner, but I am mindful of people like Jim and try to keep what I say simple and not drown in big words and explain as best as possible.

I know I am one opinion of many and my views do differ from others.

The problem is Christians overload new borns with so much about doctrine they drown them.

I have to assume that is what happened to you as well as others on here.

The bible has a lot of information in it, when studying it, one should go at an easy pace and take in what they are able to retain and slowly build up. Many are thrown into the 12 foot deep end and told to swim, forgetting they do not know the basics.
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wizardovmetal

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:20 pm

Jim wrote:
i think what you all seem to be describing is 3 main things

read bible by yourself
pray to god
ask spirit to guide

been there and done it all over...

and over...

and over...

and over...

never got me anywhere. I dont think there is an answer to the question.
or its because i dont want to hear it


well look dude we all have been in this place before and the best thing to do when your in it is keep it simple, know there is a god (the universe without one is illogical to me) have faith in him and in your salvation (all OT figures were justified by faith alone), remember to practice the fruits of the spirit, and your good, christianity is alot simpler then people make it out to be, its a relationship with the creator. i think we should all pray for jim that god will guide him out of this rut.

and heres something that will help you possibly, the one and only time god ever literally spoke to me was to tell me "there is NO confusion in truth" keep this in mind when people present theological things to you.
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:43 pm

If you want a simple book on the subject, I would recommend Lee Strobel The Case For Christ. He has written a few others, but he is good.

Also go to Hulu.com and type in Case For Christ, there is a good video on it as well.

Focus on Christ, not the pet theories of men.
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Hguols

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:58 pm

lord voldemort wrote:
I understand what Jim is saying, though I can not relate to it.

I do know that many Christians, especially those who have been a Christian for awhile and have their own pattern of studying and their own brand of tradition. They tend to want people to follow what they do, believing it is the best way to God.

One such example is that one must pray for two hours a day and read the bible for two hours a day, when this happens one has completed a check and they are on their way to being like them "a mature Christian".

They do not tend to take into account that people are different, that some do not have the means or time to delve that deep.

I know I am on the scholarly side and tend to write in that manner, but I am mindful of people like Jim and try to keep what I say simple and not drown in big words and explain as best as possible.

I know I am one opinion of many and my views do differ from others.

The problem is Christians overload new borns with so much about doctrine they drown them.

I have to assume that is what happened to you as well as others on here.

The bible has a lot of information in it, when studying it, one should go at an easy pace and take in what they are able to retain and slowly build up. Many are thrown into the 12 foot deep end and told to swim, forgetting they do not know the basics.

Anyone else smell Astroglide?

Perhaps it was the wording, but the "being mindful" had more than a "simple" air of condescension. Actually, there was a decent amount of segregation there as well. (shall the scholars file on one side of the forum, and the dullards on the other? Are those the categories?)

The problem isn't overloading "new borns" with dogma; it isn't even Mr. Voldemort's reckless use of the word "simple". The problem is, scholars (in practice or pretend), are more interested in fastidious dogma than what's REALLY important, with or without a good noob drowning.

It sickens me the thought of a theologian so calloused and weathered that he cannot even RELATE to a "new Christian" or an "uneducated Christian" lest he (forbid the thought) dumb himself "down to a simple level". Man am I glad Jesus wasn't calloused. Those little children going to Him would be standing around scratching their heads.

I think I could go the rest of my life enjoying the FULL benefits of a Christian faith without delving into religious egghead jargon pomp.
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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:11 am

I didn't detect condescension in LV's post at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:14 am

Hguols wrote:
lord voldemort wrote:
I understand what Jim is saying, though I can not relate to it.

I do know that many Christians, especially those who have been a Christian for awhile and have their own pattern of studying and their own brand of tradition. They tend to want people to follow what they do, believing it is the best way to God.

One such example is that one must pray for two hours a day and read the bible for two hours a day, when this happens one has completed a check and they are on their way to being like them "a mature Christian".

They do not tend to take into account that people are different, that some do not have the means or time to delve that deep.

I know I am on the scholarly side and tend to write in that manner, but I am mindful of people like Jim and try to keep what I say simple and not drown in big words and explain as best as possible.

I know I am one opinion of many and my views do differ from others.

The problem is Christians overload new borns with so much about doctrine they drown them.

I have to assume that is what happened to you as well as others on here.

The bible has a lot of information in it, when studying it, one should go at an easy pace and take in what they are able to retain and slowly build up. Many are thrown into the 12 foot deep end and told to swim, forgetting they do not know the basics.

Anyone else smell Astroglide?

Perhaps it was the wording, but the "being mindful" had more than a "simple" air of condescension. Actually, there was a decent amount of segregation there as well. (shall the scholars file on one side of the forum, and the dullards on the other? Are those the categories?)

The problem isn't overloading "new borns" with dogma; it isn't even Mr. Voldemort's reckless use of the word "simple". The problem is, scholars (in practice or pretend), are more interested in fastidious dogma than what's REALLY important, with or without a good noob drowning.

It sickens me the thought of a theologian so calloused and weathered that he cannot even RELATE to a "new Christian" or an "uneducated Christian" lest he (forbid the thought) dumb himself "down to a simple level". Man am I glad Jesus wasn't calloused. Those little children going to Him would be standing around scratching their heads.

I think I could go the rest of my life enjoying the FULL benefits of a Christian faith without delving into religious egghead jargon pomp.

I’m no scholar by any means necessary, but from what I experienced 1st hand, how you view Christ and the essentials of the faith are based on the non-essentials of the faith. It also shows that you are wanting to learn more about Him than just tack Him on as an accessory in your life. You’ll be surprised to find out just how many Christians that are out there that don’t even know His’ proper name, yet they follow. C’mon, you need to at least know A LITTLE BIT about Christ.

I’m not going to defend the theologians and scholars who only care about facts and not about Truth and Faith, but I sometimes feel you Hguols are attacking me based off of that one post you reply to and everytime I make a post, I see these kind of posts shortly thereafter. I know you weren’t specifically speaking of me when you spoke cannot RELATE to a new Christian. My problem I see is this: Why is it the non-Christians I speak with seem to understand what I speak of perfectly? It tends to always be the pre-indoctrinated people that come to Jim’s conclusion. I’m not saying Jim was pre-indoctrinated by any means, but there is mass false-teachings out there that is causing apostasy or heresy, or in some cases, actual physical, psychological harm to others. The fact that Jim is in this position shows that He is interested, and I see it as a blessing from God, because I believe this is going to cause Jim to get far closer to God as He has ever been. Check out Wizard, check out me. I’ve never dreamed I would ever be this close to God or the Truth, and I’m assuming the same is with Wizard as well. I say let Jim hop aboard and see the Greatness of God.

As I see with both of us, and with everyone else, I do see this is going to be a self-journey. Nobody can help Jim out on this, He has to do this all on His’ own. That is how He is going to find His’ answers.

Hguols, I’ll need a proper explanation on your last sentence, because the Scriptures themselves are filled to the brim with “religious egghead jargon pomp.” If you don’t like the religious portion of Christianity, then I hope you honestly don’t have a Bible then, because that is where Christians get their religiousness and their dogma from. Guess we should all just say: “Believe Jesus and we are saved! Even though we don’t know a lick about Him, because His’ Scriptures are religious egghead jargon pomp you don’t need! For all we care, He could be a homosexual pedophile, but it doesn’t matter, JUST BELIEVE JESUS!!!” while burning all of our Bibles then? Maybe then, Christianity will no longer have our: religious egghead jargon pomp.

Don’t take this as an attack or anything, but your’ post rubbed me heavily the wrong way. After reading what you quoted, I do think you did attack Voldemort and denouncing him when you said: It sickens me the thought of a theologian so calloused and weathered that he cannot even RELATE to a "new Christian" or an "uneducated Christian" lest he (forbid the thought) dumb himself "down to a simple level".

Maybe Voldemort doesn’t relate because he’s had a different experience than Jim did? Maybe Voldemort went and researched by Himself and not simply gone by what the Pastor said? Maybe Voldemort was well educated on the subject, where the Pastors were giving nothing but plotholes in Christianity to Jim? Maybe, who knows? All I know is I felt you honestly didn’t need to make that sentence (and to an extent, that post since I saw you tacking anybody who takes the Bible seriously as a Scholar who care more about dogma than about Truth). I felt that is an “us vs. them” view within our own brotherhood that isn't needed. Separation is one of the reasons why I left.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:12 am

i think it is important for every Christian to know their god, heck he is the be-all end-all, might want to figure out what that means.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:35 am

Quote :
Maybe Voldemort doesn’t relate because he’s had a different experience than Jim did? Maybe Voldemort went and researched by Himself and not simply gone by what the Pastor said? Maybe Voldemort was well educated on the subject, where the Pastors were giving nothing but plotholes in Christianity to Jim? Maybe, who knows? All I know is I felt you honestly didn’t need to make that sentence (and to an extent, that post since I saw you tacking anybody who takes the Bible seriously as a Scholar who care more about dogma than about Truth). I felt that is an “us vs. them” view within our own brotherhood that isn't needed. Separation is one of the reasons why I left.

i hate to say this, but in todays modern christianity world, if you are serious about things you HAVE to search it out on your own or you will always be confused or brainwashed.

what i find so interesting is that I, LV and DOL have all done this and our beleifs are strangely similar (at least from what i have gathered about their beleifs.), this goes to show things are concrete, i encourage you do the same jim.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:22 am

Hguols wrote:
lord voldemort wrote:
I understand what Jim is saying, though I can not relate to it.

I do know that many Christians, especially those who have been a Christian for awhile and have their own pattern of studying and their own brand of tradition. They tend to want people to follow what they do, believing it is the best way to God.

One such example is that one must pray for two hours a day and read the bible for two hours a day, when this happens one has completed a check and they are on their way to being like them "a mature Christian".

They do not tend to take into account that people are different, that some do not have the means or time to delve that deep.

I know I am on the scholarly side and tend to write in that manner, but I am mindful of people like Jim and try to keep what I say simple and not drown in big words and explain as best as possible.

I know I am one opinion of many and my views do differ from others.

The problem is Christians overload new borns with so much about doctrine they drown them.

I have to assume that is what happened to you as well as others on here.

The bible has a lot of information in it, when studying it, one should go at an easy pace and take in what they are able to retain and slowly build up. Many are thrown into the 12 foot deep end and told to swim, forgetting they do not know the basics.

Anyone else smell Astroglide?

Perhaps it was the wording, but the "being mindful" had more than a "simple" air of condescension. Actually, there was a decent amount of segregation there as well. (shall the scholars file on one side of the forum, and the dullards on the other? Are those the categories?)

The problem isn't overloading "new borns" with dogma; it isn't even Mr. Voldemort's reckless use of the word "simple". The problem is, scholars (in practice or pretend), are more interested in fastidious dogma than what's REALLY important, with or without a good noob drowning.

It sickens me the thought of a theologian so calloused and weathered that he cannot even RELATE to a "new Christian" or an "uneducated Christian" lest he (forbid the thought) dumb himself "down to a simple level". Man am I glad Jesus wasn't calloused. Those little children going to Him would be standing around scratching their heads.

I think I could go the rest of my life enjoying the FULL benefits of a Christian faith without delving into religious egghead jargon pomp.

I spoke on such a high level, that you could not even understand one word I said here and inserted your entire emotion into my post, based off one word. Such a big brute you are!

My I did not know "Simple" was such a big word for you, I will try to dumb it down for you, since you seem to not understand the meaning of it in my post.

The word simple means: easy to understand, not ornate, not complicated.

Not to speak in jargon!

My entire post meaning was saying exactly what you said. Showing the problems of what Christians do to other Christians, especially when they go over their head and drown them in theology, instead of showing them the simple (That would mean: Easy to understand, NO JARGON) meaning of the bible. As you simply say "The full benefit of a Christian Faith".

I can not relate because I never was at his place. I have always grew up in the Intellectual side of Christianity, I always had a basic to a higher level understanding of the faith. I am not ashamed of that, I said I could not relate because it was the truth. I was not going to lie to him just to score a few points with a simpleton as you, who wants to drink milk all the time. I want the meat of the bible, that is what I go after.

If you want to drink milk and keep the faith simple, that is your prerogative. If my ability to go deeper offends you, so be it. If you can not tolerate someone who speaks the truth, that is your choice.

I told Jim the truth as it relates to someone as me who is on the scholar side. I stand by what I said.

I do not like to see a Christian doubt their faith, I try to give them as much information as possible and encouragement to continue, if you doubt that, talk to DOL and Wizard and others here, that know me.

They will tell you I have a heart for people like Jim, and it is my intention to give to him the best information I can to encourage him on his road. I do not need a milk drinker as you, getting in my way and telling him that people like me are going to destroy his faith and distort what I have to say because the very idea of someone like me offends you.

Your problem is with me, so address me, do not address it to Jim. He has enough doubts without seeing you distort others, all you will do is add to the confusion.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:47 am

Death Over Life - So much for wearing the world like a loose garment. For further reference, my posts about you will mention you - Death Over Life. I apologize for you reading too much / between the lines of previous posts I've made.... unless they stated, they weren't really about you. My intention was not what you interpreted.

My apologies also for your assumptions that because I don't participate in "religious egghead jargon pomp" that means I support total ignorance and bible burning. Seriously, you have no idea how sorry I am that you think that. I'll not point out how dangerous some black and white thinking can be.... I'll wait for some of these flames to settle before I bring that up.
_________________

If some of you already haven't figured it out, I have a problem with a lot of theologians/scholars. ....not because of what they believe or study, I actually think that's great. It really bothers me when people's knowledge goes to their head, which not only wreaks of egomania but all encompassing approaches to circumstances and people.

Todays lesson:

lord voldemort wrote:
I spoke on such a high level, that you could not even understand one word I said here and inserted your entire emotion into my post, based off one word. Such a big brute you are!

My I did not know "Simple" was such a big word for you, I will try to dumb it down for you, since you seem to not understand the meaning of it in my post.

I'd like to think that with vast knowledge of scriptures, teachings and biblical instructions that sarcasm, and petty insults would NOT be the forefront response to.... well, lets call my original post an "angry opinionated outburst".

That's why this is a lesson, not an example. I can't even express otherwise without being insulted, and this is my reoccurring pattern with, for lack of better words, sociopaths like Mr. Voldemort.

Faith and teachings aside, my experience with the typical egomaniac scholar is that they're partially interested in a fight, and even more interested in being right. In a round about way, more interested in the problem than the solution - after all, there's no debating/reflecting/contemplating/ with the answers within arms reach. What fun is that?

I am certainly guilty of segregating some theologians/scholars as their own pride filled group. Certainly those who think they're eating meat, and who aren't studying along the same lines are just having milk, shows separation there as well.

I've studied the bible quite a bit. I've also studied people as well. I really hate to stereotype, but if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, sounds like a duck - I'm going to call it a duck.

Knowledge only goes so far, and certainly doesn't dictate the application of wisdom (I'll refer again to the quote within my post) - in fact, I've found out that the more I know, the more I know I don't know.

....and being that I'm interested in solutions and NOT fighting, I'll see how the following replies coincide with either a peaceful conclusion, or foreplay to war.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:37 pm

Quote :

I'd like to think that with vast knowledge of scriptures, teachings and biblical instructions that sarcasm, and petty insults would NOT be the forefront response to.... well, lets call my original post an "angry opinionated outburst".

That's why this is a lesson, not an example. I can't even express otherwise without being insulted, and this is my reoccurring pattern with, for lack of better words, sociopaths like Mr. Voldemort.

Sociopaths, never been called that before. That is a first.

Maybe it is the Professor Snape pic that gives me that impression, who knows? Or maybe someone just does not like me because they have their own preconceived notion of me and hates me because of it.


Quote :
If some of you already haven't figured it out, I have a problem with a lot of theologians/scholars. ....not because of what they believe or study, I actually think that's great. It really bothers me when people's knowledge goes to their head, which not only wreaks of egomania but all encompassing approaches to circumstances and people.

That is your impressing elbowing its way into the conversation. Again, as I said, you are allowing your own emotion to enter into the conversation and color everything I say as "egomania".

You say you like people of knowledge on one hand and hate them on the other. That tells me you are one confused person, who has not sorted out his priorities. That you have to hate and like something at the same time.

Which explains why you do not like me, you are mirroring and projecting your own insecurities onto me and then react to it.

So what happen, you had a dad or a pastor you respected very much, who was very knowledgeable and what did he did he do? Hurt you in some way, where you see all people like them as them? So if a smart person comes out and makes claims you call them a "sociopath"? Where is the evidence that I am one?

That means, you met one, who is very knowledgeable and he did not care for you. He hurt you in some way. So was your father or pastor a very knowledgeable sociopath? Who projected their ideology onto you and it what, caused you to question everything? Which is why you prefer something simple, a simple faith, so you never end up like the "sociopath" in your life?

So you project it on to me, because it is easier for you to do that, than accept me as what and who I am. You would rather hate me, it keeps to your preconceived notions. That I could not care about anyone, that all I like to do is spout my knowledge off and hurt everyone here? Is that it?
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:42 pm

I am not interested in fighting, but I will not let you attack my character. I have done nothing to you to warrant any attack from you, yet you have elbowed your own opinion of me into what I said. I have the right to respond and defend myself from unfair attacks on my character.

Quote :
I am certainly guilty of segregating some theologians/scholars as their own pride filled group. Certainly those who think they're eating meat, and who aren't studying along the same lines are just having milk, shows separation there as well.

Again, you are projecting yourself into this statement. I am not, nor have I ever told anyone to accept what I say as "The only way".

There is a segregation between the two. And there are people that like to keep them separated, because they can control one group over the other.

I said you are in the "milk" department, because you reject anything that disagrees with your ideology, you segregate anyone that disagrees with you, hence you calling me a "sociopath", you are trying to create a distance between where I am from everyone else, especially where you are.

You are very guilty of segregation and you do it for the wrong reason. You assumed I am standing over Jim as a "know-it-all" laughing at him for his doubting his faith. Hence "Sociopath".

The word "sociopath" says a lot about you and how you view people who are more knowledgeable than you, who sees things differently than you. That tells me, you have been the victim of such a person, so you create boundaries between yourself and such people, and you want to make a distinction between me and everyone else. You want to isolate me from everyone by calling me "sociopath", you fear what I have to say and it bothers you.

As people have told me, I come across as very self-assured in what I say, and many find that distributing. I speak with an authority, and that unnerves people, and it is being seen in how you respond to me, hence "sociopath".

I know what I believe, I am sure of what I believe and I can defend what I believe, as well as defend my views against other positions of the faith. That is why people find me unnerving.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:35 pm

To my knowledge Hguols, I can not recall every having a discussion with you on anything. You have never once tried to get to know me, you have, other than this thread, to my knowledge, never really interacted with what I have presented.

So I have to conclude you are basing your opinion of me on very unstable ground. Based on your own reading of what I have said, inserting your own assumption of me based on your own personal "sociopath" in your life.

As far as I can see, I am not the one starting a fight here, you are with your comments about me and assuming something about me that is not true. That is where Ash got me wrong and that is where you are going off the rail as well, making an assumption of me, is going to make an ASS out of you.

So I recommend to you that you drop this line of thought about me, and if you want to know me, PM and ask me there. I will not be entertaining you anymore on this, your assumption of me is very wrong and very unstable.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:04 pm

Hero wrote:
Consecration through sanctification is a key aspect of Christianity that isn't being spoken enough in my opinion. A relationship with God is basically nonexistent until you actually live the life of a living sacrifice for God. Where you live in consecration through sanctification. Why this is important is because God is so pure and we are so dirty. By staying faithful and obediant, we get closer to God and can therefore be guided by Him more clearly. As we sin more and more, we walk away and it's much harder to hear God.

For God to guide His People, we must sanctify ourselves for Him.

Paul states that when we become Christians we should "renew" the mind, what that means is, not as it is stated in English but in the Greek it means to "transplant the mind", to put in a new mind. That would be the mind of Christ.

Most Christians force this change on new believers and expect them to be full grown adults in two days after conversion.

The process takes a lifetime. As we gain more insight and knowledge of God, we use that to apply to our lives, and as we acknowledge this, God can change us. God can remove problems right off the bat, and other times he waits awhile, waiting for the person to be in the right place with the right mindset.

We are called to be Priest to Christ and that takes training and time. When one steps into Bootcamp one is not a soldier, until one completes it. One is not a special forces, until one completes boot camp, obtains a certain rank and standard and passes their training. It can take a person years to obtain the physical and mental standard of an ELITE.

Christianity is no different, we have to work for it, some get in and stay in bootcamp, others pass it and just be an average soldier, putting in their 20 years, others go above that and want to be a better soldier, they want to do other things, so they train to be that, whether it is a pilot, elite soldier, etc. They train and put there time and energy into it.

My ability is knowledge and teaching, etc. I have focused on that, that is my special ability. I am focusing on school and private studying.

We do not teach people to work their self out in salvation, we tell them to just "believe", just believe will do more harm than good.

You are right, we need to take ownership of what we believe.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:50 pm

Hguols wrote:
Death Over Life - So much for wearing the world like a loose garment. For further reference, my posts about you will mention you - Death Over Life. I apologize for you reading too much / between the lines of previous posts I've made.... unless they stated, they weren't really about you. My intention was not what you interpreted.

So, may I ask what that 1st sentence means? I apologize for reading into them, but I did heavily felt you meant me when you said scholar and theologian, although I’m not either, I do act like them because I want to learn more and grow.

Hguols wrote:

My apologies also for your assumptions that because I don't participate in "religious egghead jargon pomp" that means I support total ignorance and bible burning. Seriously, you have no idea how sorry I am that you think that. I'll not point out how dangerous some black and white thinking can be.... I'll wait for some of these flames to settle before I bring that up.

I think this all has to do with differences of what scholar and theologian means to each other, which you explained below. On black and white, I know you know me and I’ll just speak on me, but I do not have black and white thinking. Believe it or not, I’m one of the biggest gray areas you can get when it comes to thinking on a certain subject. True black and white thinking is only reserved for the absolutes, like the 10 commandments (shortened to 2 in the NT).

Hguols wrote:

If some of you already haven't figured it out, I have a problem with a lot of theologians/scholars. ....not because of what they believe or study, I actually think that's great. It really bothers me when people's knowledge goes to their head, which not only wreaks of egomania but all encompassing approaches to circumstances and people.

This is far more understandable, which is why I’m not a scholar/theologian. However, it doesn’t mean I don’t have the knowledge and wisdom of 1. I do not have an ego, or try not to have one at least, but I really know what the simple minded people are like as I’m one of them. What I truly don’t get, is why I’m called the scholar/theologian, whenever I do know what Jim is speaking of. The other thing is, why can’t I speak on what I see and yet it’s nothing but confusion to everyone that isn’t higher up? What I try to speak of, is things the church should be instilling in the minds of us which they are not. Many of the Christians/Jews of old would have the ENTIRE BIBLE memorized just because they wanted to know God that much and never shoved the faith down the throat. Notice today, most Christians do not even know the 10 commandments or even 2 commandments. How on EARTH or the afterlife can you obey Jesus' commandments if you don't even KNOW them!?!?! The only people that I see bringing in any form of knowledge/wisdom/and intelligence are the Scholars/Theologians.

From what I’m honestly seeing, if you lose the religiousness of Christianity, then Christianity really is nothing more than another form of psychology and humanism.

Hguols wrote:

Knowledge only goes so far, and certainly doesn't dictate the application of wisdom (I'll refer again to the quote within my post) - in fact, I've found out that the more I know, the more I know I don't know.

....and being that I'm interested in solutions and NOT fighting, I'll see how the following replies coincide with either a peaceful conclusion, or foreplay to war.

That is you Hguols, but not everybody is like that. The less I knew, the less I knew and the less I worshipped God because I was always feeling there was something fishy about the mainstream teachings of Him. The more I knew, the more I felt I really was and am getting closer to God and how He is, the way He wants us to Worship Him etc.

In all Truth Knowledge and Wisdom only go as far as you want it to go.

I’m not about fighting either, although everybody constantly portrays them that I’m trying to fight. It just seems though on this board (myself included) we can’t discuss without somebody getting offended and start flaming like calling someone a “sociopath” or a “brute”. Then after all that waste of time, then we start actually discussing instead of attempting to slay the other forum members (who are supposed to be brothers and sisters). All I want to do is learn the Truth and help out people like Jim when they have a question or need insight on something. If me helping out somebody and giving them information is to complicated, then I can’t be simple and don’t know how to, I apologize. But that does not mean I’m boasting of my intelligence and that does not mean I’m making myself a superior. In fact, I’m trying to be more humble when posting, because I do post here a lot when I’m mad and I need to fix that. But no matter the emotions, Truth stands whether we like it or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:51 pm

Let's all stay on topic, shall we?

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:59 pm

Ok, you two calm down. This was not a thread for arguments.

There is an awful lot to learn about Christianity, and it can be confusing to know what's what. Especially since there are so many different denominations and lines of thought.

Christianity can be as 'simple' or compilated as you wish to make it. While only the core basics will affect your salvation, the wider picture can be very interesting.

The Nicene Creed is a good starting point for what is commonly thought to be the basis for most Christian doctrine. There are a few different version of them, but it's mostly just the wording that changes.

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PostSubject: Re: Confusion is a ballache   Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:29 pm

start another thread.
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