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 Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]

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olias

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PostSubject: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:34 pm

Hero wrote:
Well then Olias, enlighten me. If you tell me I'm wrong, at least be willing to tell me where.

Some might view me as harsh, i'm fine with that. But to me, catholicism isn't simply a denomination like any other. It's a counter religion. In the sense that it goes against The True Religion that is the Gospel of Christ because of what they teach. It drives people away from God by worshipping a false one. The "Church" as catholics say it, is really nothing to my eyes. I respect those who follow this religion, but I sure wish them more than that. Catholicism is a bunch of wind to my eyes. You see the pope on TV with his nice dress and everything. But who the hell is this guy? God did not appoint him, men did. There's such a huge "holy" mascarade going on, this is what I find so disgusting about catholicism. People who claim to be close to God, yet they just follow their own traditions and their teachings are far from being food for the soul.

I will forever look down on catholicism, but I wish all the best to those who follow it. For that though, they need to get out of it. Because like I said in an earlier post, participating in rituals of idolatry opens up doors for demons to torment you in your life.

I do not have time ATM to respond to this as I have to be somewhere. However, I wanted to throw this here so I could prevent a total derailment of the BB v other forums thread.

Since I am gonna be gone, go ahead and expound on your points so I can have more material to address when I get back.
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Kamerad Ash

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:15 pm

I actually agree with many of Hero's points.

But, I've come to the conclusions that all organzied religion pretty much ends up takning the same route.

Protestant Church's have taken their own path to apostasy.. ( And of ocurse I do not mean there are not good Protestan church's ).

HIsotircally speaking.. the Catholic Church did work for Satanic interests , in my opinion.

During the end of Crusades, for example.. when they no longer needed the Knight's Templar to survive as a Power in the World, the Pope created the Spanish Inquisition , specifically to persecute those Christians of the Knight's Templar who believed things like ALL men and women should be able to read a copy of the BIble and have access to one.

The pope actually put people to torture and death for Believing that all people should be bale to read the holy scriptures.. and not just priests.

Does that mean that i consider the modern Catholic Church to be the devils spawn? No. Do I think they have a lot to answer for? Yes.
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Hero

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:25 pm

The following was written with the help of R. Brown's book "Prepare The War".

John 14:6
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


Matthew 24:4-5,23-24
4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. ...
23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.


The True Christ of The Bible was born of a virgin (Luke 1:26-35), fully God fully man (Philippians 2:5-11, never committed any sins (Hebrew 4:14-15). He walked on this Earth 33 years, died on a cross for our sins, resurrected the third day (Luke 23 and 24) and went to sit at the right of God The Father in Heaven, where He still is now (Luke 24:50-51). All the "Jesus" that are not 100% conform to this are not the Jesus of The Bible.

1 John 4:1
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


The "Concile de Trente" states the bases of the Catholicism. If you want history details I can do more researches and go into that, but the following quote is what is currently being believed in roman catholic churches. Sorry that the quote is in french, I couldnt find it in english. I'll translate

« Si quelqu’un nie, que le Corps et le Sang de Nostre Seigneur Jésus-Christ, avec son Ame, et la Divinité, et par conséquent Jésus-Christ tout entier, soit contenu véritablement, réellement et substantiellement au Sacrement de la Très Sainte Eucharistie ; mais dit, qu’il y est seulement comme dans un signe, ou bien en figure, ou en vertu : qu’il soit anathème. » (Canon 1)

Basically it means: "If someone denies that the Body and the Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, with His Soul, and his Divinity, consequently Jesus Christ whole, be very truly and substantially in the Very Holy Eucharistie ; but says that it is only a sign, or a figure, or a virtue : anathema (curse) on him."

« Si quelqu'un dit que, dans le Saint Sacrement de l'Eucharistie, le Christ, Fils unique de Dieu, ne doit pas être adoré d'un culte de latrie, même extérieur et que, en conséquence, il ne doit pas être vénéré par une célébration festive particulière, ni être porté solennellement en procession selon le rite ou la coutume louables et universels de la sainte Eglise, ni être proposé publiquement à l'adoration du peuple, ceux qui l'adorent étant des idolâtres : qu'il soit anathème. » (Canon 6)

"If someone says that the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist, Christ, only Son of God, should not be adored by a cult even outside and therefore should not be venerated by a special festive celebration, nor be carried solemnly in procession according to the rite or custom laudable and holy universal Church, or be publicly offered to the adoration of the people, who says that those who adore it are being idolaters, anathema on him."

So what does this means? It means that the RCC (roman catholic church) teaches that Jesus is wholly in the Eucharist (the hostie and the wine during communion) and that you should worship Him as that (As being wholly THE Eucharist). Otherwise, (according to them) you are cursed if you refuse to do so and if you condemn this practice as being idolatry.

However, the Bible is clear that Jesus is currently next to God The Father, in Heaven. It is also strictly forbidden to worship any image or idol and to bow before them (as a sign of worship). The Canon 6 declares that the catholic people must worship the Eucharist, give it a cult and bow before it as a sign of worship. According to them, you must worship it as being Jesus, the Son of God.

Exodus 20:4-5
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,


Not only do they make an image of Christ with the Eucharist, they claim that it IS Christ and that you need to worship it was that! This practice is clearly forbidden by The Scriptures.

1 Corinthians 10:19-20
19Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.


What this means is that when the people gave offerings to idols, they gave them demons. The were giving cults to demons through Idolatry. The exact same thing happens during Catholic cults where you must worship the eucharist by bowing in front of it. This practice of worship is idolatry, therefore it is a direct cult to demons.

****** will edit post soon, please dont argue this point before I am completely done with the post
will finish tomorrow, im tired.


Last edited by Hero on Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:18 pm

The Catholic belief of the Eucharist is one of the seven sacraments: The seven sacraments are meant to be taken to as part of the sanctification of the person, one must be able to complete all seven sacraments in order to be fully sanctified and justified (both are merged together) and it is a process that takes the life of the person to complete.

Baptism the initiation into the church (Matt. 28:19).
Confirmation is anointing the person with oil, confirming that the Holy Spirit has come upon the person. Ex. 28:41. Acts 8:14-17
Eucharist "completes Christian initiation" Matthew 26-28; Mark 14:22-24; Luke 22:19-20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-25.
Sacrament of Penance "Confession"
Joh 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
Joh 20:22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
Joh 20:23 "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."
Anointing of the Sick James 5:14-15
Holy Orders Those called to be priest, bishops, etc.
Matrimony Marriage.

If I recall there is another one, in which a person remains unmarried, but does not hold a position in the church as a bishop or priest.

Since no one can hold all seven of them, most people are able to complete six of the seven. Thus, they can not be fully sanctified and justified. Due to this, they must enter purgatory to remove the remaining sin and to be completely sanctified.

210. What is purgatory?

Purgatory is the state of those who die in God’s friendship, assured of their eternal salvation, but who still have need of purification to enter into the happiness of heaven.

211. How can we help the souls being purified in purgatory?

Because of the communion of saints, the faithful who are still pilgrims on earth are able to help the souls in purgatory by offering prayers in suffrage for them, especially the Eucharistic sacrifice. They also help them by almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance.


They have good biblical support for these sacraments. What is not supported by scripture is supported by tradition, going back to at least the late 100 C.E early 200 C.E. Which has led some to believe that these traditions are oral traditions from the apostles or their disciples.
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:50 pm

My view of Catholicism, the more I learn of it, the more I respect it.

Your view seems to stem from one of two areas: one: ignorance of the Catholic Faith or two: you are listening to protestants who are ignorant and hateful of the Catholic Faith.

I used to hate the Catholic Church, when I was ignorant of it. Since then I have mellowed out quite a bit with the faith. As I started to understand where they are coming from, I started to understand how they believed. Then i started to see how they supported their beliefs.

I suggest you read up on Catholicism by lay Catholics, there are many books on the subject.

I would recommend G.K. Chesterton (he is the CS Lewis of the Catholic Faith) many protestants like him as well.

Scott Hahn former protestant turned Catholic. Many well read Catholics recommend him to protestants who do not understand the Faith.
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Kamerad Ash

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:17 pm

Or read Tolkien. He was a devout Catholic. pirat
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:35 pm

Kamerad Ash wrote:
Or read Tolkien. He was a devout Catholic. pirat

That is an actually good choice. Even though you were being funny with it.

I think he wrote many letters to CS Lewis about converting him, but he rejected Catholicism, but that put a strain on their friendship.
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Kamerad Ash

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:38 am

No, that never happened.. I have the complete collection of Tolkiens letters.. and on that note, there is some great actual Theology from Tolkien found in some of them. I was gonna actually post a thread using the segment of a Tolkien letter awhile back.. but I got distracted or something.


...
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:49 am

Kamerad Ash wrote:
No, that never happened.. I have the complete collection of Tolkiens letters.. and on that note, there is some great actual Theology from Tolkien found in some of them. I was gonna actually post a thread using the segment of a Tolkien letter awhile back.. but I got distracted or something.


...

I have heard that he did try to convert him, and that comes from an expert I know on Tolkien and Lewis.

Maybe it was not letters, maybe it was just conversations. Either way, they talked about it.
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Exhumed

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:04 am

I agree with most of the points stated by Hero.

At least here in Chile Catholicism is like the "default" religion. People who are RC follow the religion as a cultural heritage and probably not due to a personal conviction to do it; therefore, the way put much of their own ideas on it; as seen as a "way of living" rather than a personal relation with God.

So, most Chilean "RCs" don't really practice a sound doctrine, they DO worship statues, believe in witchery, see pre-marital sex to be OK and well, lot of other things common people do.
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:42 am

Exhumed wrote:
I agree with most of the points stated by Hero.

At least here in Chile Catholicism is like the "default" religion. People who are RC follow the religion as a cultural heritage and probably not due to a personal conviction to do it; therefore, the way put much of their own ideas on it; as seen as a "way of living" rather than a personal relation with God.

So, most Chilean "RCs" don't really practice a sound doctrine, they DO worship statues, believe in witchery, see pre-marital sex to be OK and well, lot of other things common people do.

That would be cultural Roman Catholicism.

They syncretize their former religions of the indian tribes, before Catholicism came in.

This happened in Africa when Islam came in, many cultures syncretized their beliefs, incorporating the Monotheism as the greater and their local tradition as the lesser, paying homage to the greater, while holding on to their local beliefs.
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therockismighty

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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:48 am

Hmmm, I used to arc up about certain threads... this would be one I would usually vomit my opinion on... atm I find it useless to do so, unless its offensive, slander, based of a pile of false dog poo or attacking someone with absolutely no sound reasoning to do so.

Is this nit picking of each others posts worth your time?

Do we nit pick our own actions, words and motive with as much detail and effort? or are our rose colored glasses firmly affixed to our skulls?

Have a serious ponder.
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PostSubject: Re: Hero's Catholic Claims [Thread Split]   Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:11 am

Well said TRiM.

lord voldemort wrote:
My view of Catholicism, the more I learn of it, the more I respect it.
While I disagree with a fair few facets of Catholicism, the more I actually learnt about it, the more I came to respect it.


We don't need to be having this discussion at the moment though.

/thread

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