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wizardovmetal

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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:30 am

exactly, why do you think satan offered chriust the kingdoms of the world? because they were his to give... god ultimatley owns the planet, but not the world as in kingdoms, culture, government etc etc its hard to explain what i mean, but when man sins, he gives himself over to the ultimate of sin, rebellion etc. HOPEFULLY you get what i mean.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:53 am

God gave the earth to man.. man gave the earth to Satan.

That would be me uber simplistic version of it.
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:31 am

olias wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
...I am against anti-art is because art is by it's very nature, open for interpretation. In art, there is no be-all-end-all definition.

No, art can be MADE to have an open interpretation, but art isn't INTRINSICALLY subjective. Art's interpretation is only subjective when its creator intends it to be, and some artists are quite objective and concrete with what they mean, such as the works of C.S. Lewis. When somebody took his works and interpreted them to mean something he did not intend to convey, he would tell them "that is not what I meant at all", and not "your interpretation is as good as mine, the creator".

Art's nature is not defined by its subjectivity; art's nature is the artist's will, and the artist's individuality (or lack thereof) translated onto the artistic medium.

Not really. We aren’t all the same. One shoe size does not fit all. It doesn’t matter how concrete something is, if one sees something differently, they are going to see it differently whether they like it or not. That is the Truth about art. It doesn’t matter what a band or C.S. Lewis or God himself says about it. Why else do you think that Christianity has so many different views on the same book even WITH the concrete and absolutes? Answer is because we aren’t the same and we see things differently.

2nd paragraph isn’t true as I disprove it. What the artist’s will, individuality and medium is, is only relevant to the artist themselves. Just because an artist makes it and wants a certain message portrayed doesn’t mean whoever views it is going to see the same thing or see it eye to eye. Just because an artist makes something with a certain view doesn’t mean the viewer holds to the view or is responsible for the artist’s views. The only one responsible for what they get out of the art is the viewer. The artist has nothing to do with the art thereof in terms of interpretation, but rather the fact that they revealed their inner views whilst portraying them in their medium. The artist is only responsible for the artist and the art. The viewers of the art are responsible for themselves. Simple as that.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:57 pm

oh come on! so no one is going to laugh at my awesome comment???? what happened to this place? hahaha
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:25 pm

Death over Life wrote:
olias wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
...I am against anti-art is because art is by it's very nature, open for interpretation. In art, there is no be-all-end-all definition.

No, art can be MADE to have an open interpretation, but art isn't INTRINSICALLY subjective. Art's interpretation is only subjective when its creator intends it to be, and some artists are quite objective and concrete with what they mean, such as the works of C.S. Lewis. When somebody took his works and interpreted them to mean something he did not intend to convey, he would tell them "that is not what I meant at all", and not "your interpretation is as good as mine, the creator".

Art's nature is not defined by its subjectivity; art's nature is the artist's will, and the artist's individuality (or lack thereof) translated onto the artistic medium.

Not really. We aren’t all the same. One shoe size does not fit all. It doesn’t matter how concrete something is, if one sees something differently, they are going to see it differently whether they like it or not. That is the Truth about art. It doesn’t matter what a band or C.S. Lewis or God himself says about it. Why else do you think that Christianity has so many different views on the same book even WITH the concrete and absolutes? Answer is because we aren’t the same and we see things differently.

2nd paragraph isn’t true as I disprove it. What the artist’s will, individuality and medium is, is only relevant to the artist themselves. Just because an artist makes it and wants a certain message portrayed doesn’t mean whoever views it is going to see the same thing or see it eye to eye. Just because an artist makes something with a certain view doesn’t mean the viewer holds to the view or is responsible for the artist’s views. The only one responsible for what they get out of the art is the viewer. The artist has nothing to do with the art thereof in terms of interpretation, but rather the fact that they revealed their inner views whilst portraying them in their medium. The artist is only responsible for the artist and the art. The viewers of the art are responsible for themselves. Simple as that.

But a persons view of art isn't inherent of the art. It is inherent of the person with said view. So really, you aren't anti-art so much as you are anti-people-having-their-own-damn-opinions-regardless-of-what-the-artist-says. That is true not just with art, but with politics, science, philosophy, culinary techniques, mathematics, so on, so forth.

Also, it doesn't matter what an interpretation is if it is not based on anything to substantiate that interpretation. An unsubstantiated interpretation is merely an assumption, at best, and an outright falsehood, at worst. Individual interpretations take a backseat when it comes to which viewpoint solid evidence supports.

If a beholder interprets the art differently then what the artist intended, then the artist either didn't communicate his message well, or the beholder is simply mistaken. That is what I don't like about the subjective view of the world. There is no room to be wrong, except when one suggests that there is a possibility of being wrong.

Death over Life wrote:
Not really. We aren’t all the same.
Straw man. I never said that.

I never said we are all the same. Actually, as an individualist, I am quite aware of our differences.
What I am saying, is that while people's interpretation of art may be different, it is the artists interpretation that is canonical, and therefore invalidates other interpretations. What you said is quite a far cry from what I actually said.


Kamerad Ash wrote:
God gave the earth to man.. man gave the earth to Satan.

That would be me uber simplistic version of it.

Man is not a monolithic entity. Some men give the earth to satan. Others to god.

But Satan could never give us the earth. God is the only one who has the power to do that.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:17 am

this is interesting. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

now at the footnotes it says some manuscripts say race, not generation. i am honestly confused about this passage and really wish i could figure out why he says he will come before the generation passes away, because christ has not come yet, some of the things he said would happen happened soon after he died and many of them are taking place today. he did say thought the WHOLE WORLD would see his coming. it will be unmistakable.
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:51 pm

wizardovmetal wrote:
this is interesting. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

now at the footnotes it says some manuscripts say race, not generation. i am honestly confused about this passage and really wish i could figure out why he says he will come before the generation passes away, because christ has not come yet, some of the things he said would happen happened soon after he died and many of them are taking place today. he did say thought the WHOLE WORLD would see his coming. it will be unmistakable.

Eh? My Bible (KJV) says nothing that he is returning in those 2 Scriptures. Even yours doesn't say He is coming. Remember Wizard, lose the footnotes. It is those footnotes that are lieing and deceiving you. That entire Chapter is dealing with the Destruction of the Temple, NOT Jesus' return. The Scriptures are saying that they are not going to pass away (die) until after everything he said before hand has passed. As Lord Voldemort has shown, what the Scriptures said is True as the extreme majority lived throughout each and every last word Christ has spoken, and even witnessed the destruction of the Temple and the buildings surrounding them. They did not pass until all those things have fulfilled. And with that being said, it kind of goes with that next verse you have posted. It doesn't matter who or what passes, because His Words will never pass away.

It's a simplistic misunderstanding. It is really about the destruction of the temple, not Jesus' return. That is all.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:23 pm

wizardovmetal wrote:
this is interesting. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

now at the footnotes it says some manuscripts say race, not generation. i am honestly confused about this passage and really wish i could figure out why he says he will come before the generation passes away, because christ has not come yet, some of the things he said would happen happened soon after he died and many of them are taking place today. he did say thought the WHOLE WORLD would see his coming. it will be unmistakable.

The prophecy mention there is concerning the generation that he is speaking to.

Many today have tried to put it to this generation, when Israel became a nation again in 1948, and one generation is roughly 40 years. Nothing happened in 1988 or after. Here we are 60 years later from that.

Whereas, Jesus spoke that roughly 30 C.E. maybe 28 or 29 C.E. or no later than 32 C.E. But either way, 40 years later Jerusalem was destroyed. One generation.

I hope to get to that chapter in a week or so.


Last edited by lord voldemort on Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:30 pm

wizardovmetal wrote:
exactly, why do you think satan offered chriust the kingdoms of the world? because they were his to give... god ultimatley owns the planet, but not the world as in kingdoms, culture, government etc etc its hard to explain what i mean, but when man sins, he gives himself over to the ultimate of sin, rebellion etc. HOPEFULLY you get what i mean.

One of the reasons he wanted to give the kingdoms to Christ, so that he can keep his job.

Christ will obtain the kingdoms anyway, he was trying to circumvent it, by handing it to him, with one condition.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:49 pm

right but what i dont get is the son of man was going to come twice is what youve said? so, where can i find information about the second coming when he takes the entire planet.
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lord voldemort

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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:12 pm

wizardovmetal wrote:
right but what i dont get is the son of man was going to come twice is what youve said? so, where can i find information about the second coming when he takes the entire planet.

One of the major passages comes from Daniel chap. 2:31-45.

The Stone mentioned in the passage is the kingdom of God that will destroy all the empires and it will spread throughout the entire world.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:13 pm

The next chapter. Ch. 25 of Matthew as well.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:54 pm

this happened
1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

ah now re-reading this makes much more sense, they ask him about TWO things, not one, the end of the age, and the coming of the son of man, we already know the end of the "age" (im gonna say "jewish" age) has come BUT the son of man has NOT come.

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"







29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
'[c]

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.



this has yet to happen (specific things that have not happened yet in red and bold)

secondly in the footnotes its says some translations say race not generation.
([e]Matthew 24:34 Or race)


am i getting closer to understanding this?
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:01 am

They have to say race, in order for it to fit their own point of view. The word nation would be the word that would fit it, it is the word Ethnos, where we get the word ethnic. If it was race as the Greeks saw it, it would be that word.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:50 am

so he was talking about the jewish nation??

and do i have it correct about them talking about two different things, the end of the age, and the coming of the son of man? and the things that have not come to pass yet?
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:58 am

wizardovmetal wrote:
so he was talking about the jewish nation??

and do i have it correct about them talking about two different things, the end of the age, and the coming of the son of man? and the things that have not come to pass yet?

He was talking about the present Jewish people, yes.

He is talking about the end of the age and the coming of the second coming.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:19 am

so he was not talking a generation as in 70-100 years then. because not all of the things came to pass before that literal generation died out, the end of the age did though. but not the second coming and the final end of the age of man.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:56 pm

The generation he was talking about was the one he was talking to, that they would see the end of the age by the destruction of the Jewish temple.

But many believed that is when Christ would return. The prophecies all seem to point that the return of Christ would happen during that time period.

Daniel prophecy seems bring the end around the roman period. For example Dan. 11 starts with the prophecy of Alexander to the split of his empire and it ends with the "other king" of vs 40. Many believe it to be the "antichrist" but historically the passages before it talk about Antiochus IV, Maccabean period, King Herod, which all led up to the time of Christ. The "Other king" is Augustus invading that area, via Syria and then into Egypt.

So the time frame ends at Augustus, which led many to belive that the time of Christ was the end of the age. So when Christ talked about the destruction of the temple, they assumed that is when his return would happen as well.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:27 pm

no, many of the return prophecies have not, or are just now coming to pass (give or take 500 years) such as, seal up the book to the time of the end, where may shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased, well many people are running to and fro more then ever in history and knowledge increases the amount that it would have taken a generation to discover in around a month, and every year the speed of increases goes up by 20%

end of the age prophecies: 1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.


these have come to pass (except the bold)


return of christ prophecies

29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
The Day and Hour Unknown
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.


(will add more later)


i do find this verse interesting, what are your thoughts on it?

That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:48 pm

What I think Matt. 24:37 may not be about the second coming, but about the destruction of Jerusalem. The phrase one is taken and one is left, was a tactic that the Romans used on their way to attack Jerusalem. They would kill one person and let the other person go to Jerusalem. Therefore, the "coming of the son of man" is judgment of the Jerusalem.

Revelation 19, is also seen as a "second coming" passage, but I disagree. I believe it is the judgment on the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire which was the tool used to defeat them after world war one.

Christianity was used to destroy the Roman Empire in the West. The Christian Goths invaded and overwhelmed the Roman Empire and collapsed it and took it over, and eventually it turned into the Catholic system, which eventually turned into Western Europe and the Catholic Church.

Britain being a Christian Empire defeated the Muslim Ottoman Empire.

Christianity destroyed or conquered or defeated two of the seven empires, Rome and Ottoman. I believe the Neo-Ottoman empire will be defeated by America, so when it happens, there will be a major war between the US and the Middle East.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:33 am

one thing i have wondered about is if the SNWO is going to come out of america or europe, and yes it is going to happen, i have researched it enough to know it is being put in to action slowly but surely, there are also plans to establish a one world religion, this is obvious putting aside what satanists have told me i have done seperate research and come up with conclusions, the first attempt on this was the big "new-age" religion craze in the 60s-70s it failed but it defenitly changed america i know whatever the last beast from the abyss is, it is going to rule the WHOLE WORLD. of course, even if it doesent happen, its still always good to watch for these things and know they are a possibility.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:47 am

I do not doubt there is a movement to form a one world government. If it happens, i will not be surprised, but i will not say it is prophetic, it will be irrelevant to prophecy. Most likely what you are referring to is European based, it will there way to maintain European power, a one religion policy, will be implemented to ensure Islam does not advance and take over, so there might be a forced containment of Muslims. To ensure they do not take over.

But the empire that the bible talks about is a neo-Ottoman Empire. It would not surprise me if these two entities exist at the same time. But it will not be a one world, but a ONE EUROPE. The progressives in America want to form a ONE AMERICA (uniting America, Canada and Mexico) and then form a joint alliance between these two powers.

This is scenario is very possible.
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:15 am

yes, i do know that this one world religion will be in effort to mostly stop islam and secondly judaism and christianity, im not taking this as hard evidence, but someone told me that once the one world religion takes effect, christianity and judaism will not allowed to be public you will have to keep it stricly private and to yourself
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:25 pm

why in luke did christ speak of redemption, and the kingdom of god coming

27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

29He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

once again we have the issue of "this generation"

also do you mind pointing out verses that refer to the actual second coming?
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PostSubject: Re: "End time" claim made by Wizard   Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:58 pm

Zec 14:1 Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.
Zec 14:4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.


Revelation here alludes to it:

Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."
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