satan is also very involved in the music scene, take santana for example, he uses occult rituals to contact a "spirit" that "plays through him" satan and his demons are masters of music, they were in charge of worship before they fell.

wizardovmetal wrote:

well i know this much, satan himself gives america great power, i found this out by getting involved with the eliteists, take for example the illuminatti, they dop exist, i was always skeptical of it, but when you have someone who is involved with it telling you it does exist, then you know. as far as i know bush belonged to it, so does obama, they both are in the proccess of laying the SNWO foundations. i dont know who else belonged to it, i just know both of them do.

No Jon, it's God who gives America power. Satan can do absolutely nothing (nor can we) without God willing it.

wizardovmetal wrote:

... satan and his demons are masters of music, they were in charge of worship before they fell.

No...they weren't...the idea that they were came from a translation error/misunderstanding of a single verse in the OT...other than that verse, there is nothing in scripture that indicates that Satan was in charge of music or worship in heaven before the fall.

well whether or not he was he still is involved in it

He is involved in all human activity, but he is not as powerful as he would like people to think he is.

he has alot of power over atheists

I would use the word "influence" rather than power. Now...don't get me wrong...I do think that Satan and demons do have power...but their power is limited by God.

true, but he has the power of the air, in magic, the power of the air is the ability to influence thoughts, attitudes, emotions etc

wizardovmetal wrote:

true, but he has the power of the air, in magic, the power of the air is the ability to influence thoughts, attitudes, emotions etc

only indirectly. Inasmuch as bad friends are bad influences for instance.

Job 1 perfectly describes the relationship between Satan and God in addition to Satan and humans.

No disrespect Wizard, but once again, you have created a Super Satan who is far greater than God. It's not just you, but a rather large portion of Christians have done this and it is rather scary that the adversary according to you guys have much more power than God.

Satan from what I've seen isn't even an influential figure like Christ. The way I see it, Christ has created one road and Satan has created a different road (God allowing Satan to create this different road. Of course if God doesn't want Satan to have this road under his belt, then God would reject/refuse it. And btw, Satan didn't create the road, God just allowed it)

With both paths being open, God gives us the free will to choose. One explains why this road should be taken and the other explains why their road should be taken instead. Even as Scriptures have pointed out, nobody told you you had to listen to the Devil/Devils at all (or even God for that matter, but an entirely different subject never the less). Which path you choose is your choice and which ever choice you choose you are responsible for the consequences thereof.

Once again, Christianity is not supposed to be the scapegoat religion. Satan doesn't do this and Satan doesn't do that. That is our choice and that is our sin, not Satan's. The only way this is Satan's sin, is if we humans are Satan incarnate (which I do think that is a heresy, since we can be LIKE Satan, but not Satan incarnate)

Just read the Bible and realize that Satan's only power is from God. Sometimes I am even willing to say that Satan still is on the Earth not for the popular portrayal of Satan, but even to show how great God is. Even sin as I see, can show why God is so great. A subject I would personally like to dwell moreseo in.

actually satan to me is not as powerful or even near as powerful as god nor did i claim he was, i know that satan has been allowed to do certain things knowing the end is near for him, but he is destined for his final doom, in some respects satan is more powerful then people give him credit for, and in some respects people give him too much credit, it just depends on the issue we are discussing. I know recently humanity is on a severe moral decline and it makes me sick, satan defenitly has the power to influence atheists or very weak christians. one thing i leanrned as a satanist is about thoughtforms. thoughtforms are where certain thoughts, feelings, etc are "brodcast" to people, weak minded people pick up on them, feed into it, and add even more power to a thoughtform, then others whon come into contact with that person are influenced by the extension of the thoughtform they have fed into, its strange and hard to explain, but it works none the less and you are absolutley correct on the whole scapegoat thing, satan is not the big bad all that makes people always do bad things and people have no control over themselves, people do have control over themselves, but as i said, thoughforms have power and can influence mass amounts of people, but only weak minded people feed into them, most strong christians can easily resist them. i know satan has a large influence over the music industry, the movie industry, the video game industry, etc

AS I SAID ONLY INFLUENCE people ultimatley have the choice to make and can decide for themselves how they respond, sadly, most people just follow the crowd and do whatever everyone else is doing. i know from experience satan does have a lot of power to influence people, but people are ultimatley responsible for their actions. he may tempt, but we must overcome.

to be completly realistic people struggle against their OWN fleshly desires more then satanic influence. the flesh is your worst enemy

It is important to remember that men are devils too. Satan.. of course, is the archtype devil.. but the rest of us are our own devils as well.

Satan is the just the worst devil because he is the highest and most powerful. ( His position).


That being said, he should never be taken lightly. Satan is too much for any mrtal man to handle.. he is God's to deal with.

well said but i disagree, we are not devils, devils are fallen angels, there are some 72 major angels under satan and many of them govern lesser beings, some of the govern hundreds of thousands of lesser demons. there is a rabnking system of them and all that but there really isnt a need to get into that, im just saying. they also look nothing like depicted, they are just as beautiful as the day God created them.

as i have said before, our flesh is our biggest struggle, not all struggles involve satan himself, he can only be in one place at a time so it isnt possible for him to directly tempt people out there all the time, but he has rescources, music, movies, pornography etc. and dont even tell me those arent direct works of satan, i know for a fact they are because i have spoken with many elite satanists who have told me about the involvment of the movies, music, etc in satanism, some are involved directly, some indirectly. by indirectly i mean not involved directly with the brotherhood of satan, or the illuminati, but just personal involvment in the occult. an example of indirectly involved people is Carlos Santana, an example of someone directly involved would be Ozzy, for awhile i thought he was just playing around, found out differently later. another example is Twisted Sister, one of the people i know witnessed them working with one of the most powerful witches out there.

Quote :

he can only be in one place at a time so it isnt possible for him to directly tempt people out there all the time,

I don't knwo about that. I can see ways in which an angel of satan's magnitude would be able to inflluence people and things alll over the world.. at the same time. Not, of course in the way that God can do suc h a thing.. but in other ways. .

One simply has to be "outside of time" while working within it...

Once could also affect human souls... which dwell outside of time... while also dwelling in it.

In so you could affect countless people... and all seemingly at the " same time".

And we are not even dealing with Satan's physical tools within "time".. such as tv. the media.. political power.. global brainwashing and hypnosis, etc...

wizardovmetal wrote:

...another example is Twisted Sister, one of the people i know witnessed them working with one of the most powerful witches out there.

Dee Snider is a professed Christian. I do not believe for a minute that he is involved in satanism or witchcraft.

Well as spoken about once again, a Super Satan is greater than God. I do find it interesting that Satan has all the power in the world for entertainment media but all God can have is a little book. Yeah, what you are saying shows me how am I supposed to take God as a serious all-mighty God? Answer is I can't.

Yeah, Satan does not play music and sell out concerts. Satan's tools are not music, movies, and video games and books. They are all forms of art and literature. Once again, God is powerless, because once again, it is apparantly impossible for God to use "Satan's tools" against Him and praise God, yet Satan has all the powers in the world and Spirituality to use "God's tools" against Him.

Seriously, Harry Potter is NOT the Devil. According to you I should have been demon possessed by now with all the Satanic Music I listen to. I have absolutely no problems playing video games (yes even the violent ones like GTA/Mortal Kombat and even the "Satanic" ones like Diablo and Doom) and have played them ever since I was a little kid.

If you wish to view existence as Satan owning anything and everything that has anything to do with art or expression of your thought's/ideas/beleifs/or emotions whereas God is nothing but an empty void, so be it. Just don't go preaching all this garbage that Satan is so great while God is so feeble and powerless. This could actually be considered blasphemy since it is puting the blame on the victim and not the criminal.

If you truly have a problem with music or video games or movies, it is the people, not the art within itself. Lord Voldemort made a great blog or 2 about this subject. I for sure remembered the Knowledge of Good and Evil within Man blog which I'm referring to actually.

i have no issues with music, video games, etc, JUST THE INTENT BEHIND THEM lyrics etc. will listening to satanic bands send you to hell? no. but it certainly could hinder you in faith, but that depends on the person of course

wizardovmetal wrote:

i have no issues with music, video games, etc, JUST THE INTENT BEHIND THEM lyrics etc. will listening to satanic bands send you to hell? no. but it certainly could hinder you in faith, but that depends on the person of course

Alright. We are coming to agreement here. As for the intent, as I've spoken with a few others on the chat before, the intent behind the creations lies within the creator only. Just because the creator had a sinful heart in creating the subject matter at hand doesn't mean that the viewer of said art will come to terms or agree with what the artist had intended. The one reason why I am so fervently anti-censorship and why I am against anti-art is because art is by it's very nature, open for interpretation. In art, there is no be-all-end-all definition. This is how some people find Satanic messages in Christian songs and how people find Christian messages in Secular Satanic songs. Not due to the intentions, but rather the interpretations and views bestowed upon the said art being viewed.

One quick thing that I must hurry up because I have to go to work, but one reason why I was so interested in Satanism is because I view Satanism as the gaining, indulging, discovering, learning, and realization of knowledge, wisdom, intelligence, and Truth. One way of this realization is through art which simply cannot be denied. With that being said, I do view censorship of art and art's destruction to be a suppression of knowledge, wisdom, intelligence, entertainment, thought provoking subjects, and worst of all, Truth. If there is at least one reason to keep said art, is because it just may be that 1 art (no matter the intentions) that will cause one to realize and be transformed into hopefully something greater due to it.

I would have created a longer post, but I really need to get ready for work. Blessings. \m/

Death over Life wrote:

...I am against anti-art is because art is by it's very nature, open for interpretation. In art, there is no be-all-end-all definition.

No, art can be MADE to have an open interpretation, but art isn't INTRINSICALLY subjective. Art's interpretation is only subjective when its creator intends it to be, and some artists are quite objective and concrete with what they mean, such as the works of C.S. Lewis. When somebody took his works and interpreted them to mean something he did not intend to convey, he would tell them "that is not what I meant at all", and not "your interpretation is as good as mine, the creator".

Art's nature is not defined by its subjectivity; art's nature is the artist's will, and the artist's individuality (or lack thereof) translated onto the artistic medium.

Kamerad Ash wrote:

It is important to remember that men are devils too. Satan.. of course, is the archtype devil.. but the rest of us are our own devils as well.

Satan is the just the worst devil because he is the highest and most powerful. ( His position).


That being said, he should never be taken lightly. Satan is too much for any mrtal man to handle.. he is God's to deal with.

No, the devil is the devil. And we are greater then he. Don't try and mish mash definitions.

[quote="wizardovmetal"]... an example of someone directly involved would be Ozzy....[/quotes]

Actually Ozzy is an anglican Christian.

only those in christ are greater then him

Kamerad Ash wrote:

One simply has to be "outside of time" while working within it...

Once could also affect human souls... which dwell outside of time... while also dwelling in it.

I can agree with this.

Kamerad Ash wrote:

And we are not even dealing with Satan's physical tools within "time".. such as tv. the media.. political power.. global brainwashing and hypnosis, etc...

Nah. I think seeing the devil in even the mundane is as bad as seeing him as nonexistant. This statement is very subjective and kind of hysterical.

wizardovmetal wrote:

only those in christ are greater then him

Yes, but by virtue of our flesh, however imperfect, we are greater than Satan. I do not believe the flesh to be inherently evil, as it is given to us by God. Satan has nothing to do with God in his punishment.

There are those who hold to the belief that flesh is evil in and of itself, but I would remind those who do believe this that this is an old Gnostic heresy.

Death over Life wrote:

Well as spoken about once again, a Super Satan is greater than God.

here you go i have proof of what DOL is saying...

Quote :

Nah. I think seeing the devil in even the mundane is as bad as seeing him as nonexistant. This statement is very subjective and kind of hysterical.

Hysterical? No, I'm just going by scripture. When Satan tempted Christ by offering him all of the "kingdoms of the earth".. that means that they were/ are his to give. It would not have been a temptation if it would hvae not be a real offering.

Satan is in fact the god of this world, that is also why Christ came to draw people to Himself.. and then went off to prepare a place of for them.. in the world to come. He didn't come and conquer the world.. taking it from Satan.. instead he said that He " was not of the world".

Nothing hysterical, just calm and scriptural.

Kamerad Ash wrote:

Quote :

Nah. I think seeing the devil in even the mundane is as bad as seeing him as nonexistant. This statement is very subjective and kind of hysterical.

Hysterical? No, I'm just going by scripture. When Satan tempted Christ by offering him all of the "kingdoms of the earth".. that means that they were/ are his to give. It would not have been a temptation if it would hvae not be a real offering.

Satan is in fact the god of this world, that is also why Christ came to draw people to Himself.. and then went off to prepare a place of for them.. in the world to come. He didn't come and conquer the world.. taking it from Satan.. instead he said that He " was not of the world".

Nothing hysterical, just calm and scriptural.

I have heard this before, but the logic is faulty.

I claim that I can give someone something. Therefore, by claiming I can give him something, then I MUST be able to provide.

I am sure you can see the problem with the logic.

The devil doesn't have the power to deliver on his promises.

You say that it is scriptual that satan is god of the earth whose promises in theory could be fufilled. To this I say:

Genesis
3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Tell that too the holocaust victims, who while starving to death and suffering beyond imagination... prayed to God for deliverance.. and there only deliverance was to finally achieve death.

Ask them who the "god" of this world is.. and you'll get a reliable answer. I'm sure.

God is God.. and God rules over all... bit satan is allowed rulership over this world. Period. This world does not know God.