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 Why is Love seen as a weakness?

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metalgrinch

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PostSubject: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:10 pm

Has anyone else besides me noticed this? It seems that due to many modern societal and sociological "rules" about how Christians "should" act towards each other, lots of times it seems as if actually LOVING someone else is looked down upon, as a weakness and taken as being "clingy" or "dependent" and not self-sufficient. Almost like if we love each other too much or desire to actually spend time with people we like we are seen as being too dependent on others and not dependent enough on God, hence the Christian "in crowd" backs away.
It's the one command that I think God wants us to do most and it's also the one nobody really cares to ever do on any real level.
Now when I say loving I mean taking real care and concern for someone when there ARE NOT OTHER PEOPLE AROUND. Even in my own church people hug and laugh together in the midst of a crowd (during holiday parties, bible studies, after-church chat, hangouts, etc), but are reluctant to do so during small fellowship times or one-to-one interactions. It seems people like to be loving towards others when they're around other people so I guess they can be seen as "loving Christians" when in reality they're far from it.
Many times it seems this is done for the sake of "humility" which most people seem to think is simply being quiet and very untalkative when in reality being humble before God is fearing Him enough to do His will, which is to love others, even if that means talking a lot and expressing your real opinion about things.

We make too many excuses as Christians with our very own beliefs - ever hear "don't depend on people, only on God," or "people will always fail you" ??? You know what, maybe people SHOULDN'T actually fail THIS much, and maybe the fact that many people do fail has less to do with the fact that they're sinners and more to do with the fact that they aren't the real genuine and loving Christians they claim to be. It's sad that in my own life I've found it's actually the non-christians who've failed and disappointed me way less than self-proclaimed Christians. I feel we use these excuses way too often for our plain old lack of initiative and fear that we might actually have to love and care about someone else on a personal level, and not just on a surface level when other people can see us doing so.
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Kamerad Ash

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:30 pm

Who cares, man.

See things they way you think they ought to be seen.
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:43 am

metalgrinch wrote:
Has anyone else besides me noticed this? It seems that due to many modern societal and sociological "rules" about how Christians "should" act towards each other, lots of times it seems as if actually LOVING someone else is looked down upon, as a weakness and taken as being "clingy" or "dependent" and not self-sufficient. Almost like if we love each other too much or desire to actually spend time with people we like we are seen as being too dependent on others and not dependent enough on God, hence the Christian "in crowd" backs away.
It's the one command that I think God wants us to do most and it's also the one nobody really cares to ever do on any real level.

To be honest, no I haven't noticed that. Actually, when you are around those who truly do care for you, you don't really see or hear of anyone bashing you for loving someone. Sounds to me like you are around a bunch of hypocrits. Even those who hate Christianity have never gotten on to me for being loving or caring. So, I don't know where you are getting this info from.

metalgrinch wrote:

Now when I say loving I mean taking real care and concern for someone when there ARE NOT OTHER PEOPLE AROUND. Even in my own church people hug and laugh together in the midst of a crowd (during holiday parties, bible studies, after-church chat, hangouts, etc), but are reluctant to do so during small fellowship times or one-to-one interactions. It seems people like to be loving towards others when they're around other people so I guess they can be seen as "loving Christians" when in reality they're far from it.

I have been in your position before, and have seen that myself from the "church" scene. Since leaving it almost a year ago, instead of seeing what you see, I have seen a far more true-genuine love, even from those who I used to see all the time at church with. I don't know how many times I've spoken of it, from both Scripture and experience, today's form of church has it wrong. This is what today's church shows you, but the church of the Scriptures will show you the exact opposite. There was a time where I was searching for a New Testament church after I left the church scene, but what I found, which I saw as amazing, was I was involved in a New Testament church the whole time, but what is missing, is still the breaking of bread and remembrance of the Last Supper. Since I know you have spoken about going to today's form of church, I can see and don't blame you for writing that or for seeing your problems.

Also, since leaving church, I have really had far more 1 on 1 interactions with friends and individuals rather than on the big group as the church scene has put it.

metalgrinch wrote:

Many times it seems this is done for the sake of "humility" which most people seem to think is simply being quiet and very untalkative when in reality being humble before God is fearing Him enough to do His will, which is to love others, even if that means talking a lot and expressing your real opinion about things.

From what I garner, I agree with you here.

metalgrinch wrote:

We make too many excuses as Christians with our very own beliefs - ever hear "don't depend on people, only on God," or "people will always fail you" ??? You know what, maybe people SHOULDN'T actually fail THIS much, and maybe the fact that many people do fail has less to do with the fact that they're sinners and more to do with the fact that they aren't the real genuine and loving Christians they claim to be. It's sad that in my own life I've found it's actually the non-christians who've failed and disappointed me way less than self-proclaimed Christians. I feel we use these excuses way too often for our plain old lack of initiative and fear that we might actually have to love and care about someone else on a personal level, and not just on a surface level when other people can see us doing so.

If I am properly understanding what you say here, than I agree with you, but it seems that the Christians that you are around are a different definition than the Christians I hang out with, so I might disagree with this.

Personally, I don't get why you made this portion since a lot of the people on here and from my personal life, already do what you are demanding we do here. I feel you are preaching to the already converted, not to those who really need to hear it.

The problem isn't us on blabberjesus per say. The problem is today's Christianity and it's perversion of the Scripture, with the church scene being what you view as Christianity. If you wish to solve the problems that you have with "Christians", then you need to read the Scriptures on 1st what it is to be a Christian, and what Church really is. Then once you equip yourself with the Truth, then you can go out and reach out.
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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:47 pm

Love by its very nature makes you susceptible to weakness (not necessarily in a bad way). Whether or not it's worth it depends on what you value most.
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:40 pm

Read C.S. Lewis's The Four Loves
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TheBeastSlayer

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:26 pm

Love rawks is all Im saying. People may see me as clingy, but I genuinely love people. Who cares what other people think. Razz I love you *hugs*
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FireProphet

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:39 pm

metalgrinch wrote:
Now when I say loving I mean taking real care and concern for someone when there ARE NOT OTHER PEOPLE AROUND. Even in my own church people hug and laugh together in the midst of a crowd (during holiday parties, bible studies, after-church chat, hangouts, etc), but are reluctant to do so during small fellowship times or one-to-one interactions. It seems people like to be loving towards others when they're around other people so I guess they can be seen as "loving Christians" when in reality they're far from it.
Hugs and laughing do not equal love/loving. Maybe you weird people out when one-on-one with them?

metalgrinch wrote:
We make too many excuses as Christians with our very own beliefs - ever hear "don't depend on people, only on God," or "people will always fail you" ??? You know what, maybe people SHOULDN'T actually fail THIS much, and maybe the fact that many people do fail has less to do with the fact that they're sinners and more to do with the fact that they aren't the real genuine and loving Christians they claim to be. It's sad that in my own life I've found it's actually the non-christians who've failed and disappointed me way less than self-proclaimed Christians. I feel we use these excuses way too often for our plain old lack of initiative and fear that we might actually have to love and care about someone else on a personal level, and not just on a surface level when other people can see us doing so.
So, you're saying that because of the stigma that other Christians will fail us, Christians tend to distance themselves from one another? That is interesting.
While I would agree it's possible to go too far, saying people will fail you still isn't a bad thing in my book. It's about maintaining a balanced perspective. Sometimes you can place so much trust and hope in other Christians, much of it solely based on what you see of their Christian habits, that when they do fail you it's impact is monumental. Some people take offenses from other Christians so hard that they don't just walk away from a church, they walk away from God. They give too much weight to righteousness being represented in man when, Christian or not, only God alone is completely righteous.
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:28 pm

The Beast Slayer wrote:
Love rawks is all Im saying. People may see me as clingy, but I genuinely love people. Who cares what other people think. Razz I love you *hugs*

You may love people, but I am a True Genuine Misanthrope! Grim Banger

(Not joking, with the exception of a few, I really despise the human race. Those who have seen me on the old firestream can testify that.)
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The Last Firstborn

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:06 pm

Misanthropy ftw. Grim Banger
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ELAN

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:19 pm

Death over Life wrote:
The Beast Slayer wrote:
Love rawks is all Im saying. People may see me as clingy, but I genuinely love people. Who cares what other people think. Razz I love you *hugs*

You may love people, but I am a True Genuine Misanthrope! Grim Banger

(Not joking, with the exception of a few, I really despise the human race. Those who have seen me on the old firestream can testify that.)

U + me + bffs.
Though I've never hated a human being... I just cannot stand society.
'Cept for you fine ladies and gents, a'course.
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TheBeastSlayer

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:34 pm

ELAN wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
The Beast Slayer wrote:
Love rawks is all Im saying. People may see me as clingy, but I genuinely love people. Who cares what other people think. Razz I love you *hugs*

You may love people, but I am a True Genuine Misanthrope! Grim Banger

(Not joking, with the exception of a few, I really despise the human race. Those who have seen me on the old firestream can testify that.)

U + me + bffs.
Though I've never hated a human being... I just cannot stand society.
'Cept for you fine ladies and gents, a'course.
Well thank a' kindly sir.
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therockismighty

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:33 am

God created all these people, despite whatever they are doing.

When you are at your least appalling and least lovable state... do you want to be written off or have a chance to redeem yourself or be loved and fulfilled in the right ways.

Yes people on social masks don't they? we all do this, we all put some sort of pretense on to cope and fit in somehow.

I still question why you keep pointing out what all these people are doing wrong, but don't go to God first.. venting to Him, letting go of offence, working on the things you can so you can make the friends who have your back.

We are the Church, so if something is up with "the Church" we must stand on the Word and be His hands and feet no matter what... we are all guilty of being hypocrites, the constant fault finding helps take the microscope off ourselves.

When many gather in His name, many mighty things can be done, isolation and disconnection from the Church- which is not a building, its being with other believers and fellowshipping with them.

Grinchy, work on your imperfections, learn to love yourself, learn to have grace, keep loving people, do not have unrealistic expectations of others, and sow into the Kingdom not fruitless relationships.
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:50 am

ELAN wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
The Beast Slayer wrote:
Love rawks is all Im saying. People may see me as clingy, but I genuinely love people. Who cares what other people think. Razz I love you *hugs*

You may love people, but I am a True Genuine Misanthrope! Grim Banger

(Not joking, with the exception of a few, I really despise the human race. Those who have seen me on the old firestream can testify that.)

U + me + bffs.
Though I've never hated a human being... I just cannot stand society.
'Cept for you fine ladies and gents, a'course.

Grim Banger

I am the exact same way, but I have personally hated a human being before. Something from the past, but it creeps up sometimes. I am really glad that people here realize my misanthropy is humans in general ala society and not every and all individual people (although sometimes that creeps up on me). Even if I do hate another individual human, I never show hate to them. I can personally thank Christ for me holding back on hurting people. Praise God for that! But that still doesn't mean I accept or condone much of humanity and what it has done. Humanity really causes me to Puke
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:12 pm

"Misanthropy develops when without art one puts complete trust in somebody thinking the man absolutely true and sound and reliable and then a little later discovers him to be bad and unreliable...and when it happens to someone often...he ends up...hating everyone." Plato.
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ELAN

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:22 pm

Death over Life wrote:
ELAN wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
The Beast Slayer wrote:
Love rawks is all Im saying. People may see me as clingy, but I genuinely love people. Who cares what other people think. Razz I love you *hugs*

You may love people, but I am a True Genuine Misanthrope! Grim Banger

(Not joking, with the exception of a few, I really despise the human race. Those who have seen me on the old firestream can testify that.)

U + me + bffs.
Though I've never hated a human being... I just cannot stand society.
'Cept for you fine ladies and gents, a'course.

Grim Banger

I am the exact same way, but I have personally hated a human being before. Something from the past, but it creeps up sometimes. I am really glad that people here realize my misanthropy is humans in general ala society and not every and all individual people (although sometimes that creeps up on me). Even if I do hate another individual human, I never show hate to them. I can personally thank Christ for me holding back on hurting people. Praise God for that! But that still doesn't mean I accept or condone much of humanity and what it has done. Humanity really causes me to Puke

You hit it on the head... society in general, as opposed to each individual in society. Anyone who knows me knows that I care about people; I'm the kindof guy that asks customers how their day was and mean it. But as a whole, humanity disgusts me as a nature of itself. Humanism is the downfall of every man... that is why the only real untainted goal in life is to be Christlike, in my own opinion... because it takes you away from your disgusting human state.
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:38 pm

Death over Life wrote:
ELAN wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
The Beast Slayer wrote:
Love rawks is all Im saying. People may see me as clingy, but I genuinely love people. Who cares what other people think. Razz I love you *hugs*

You may love people, but I am a True Genuine Misanthrope! Grim Banger

(Not joking, with the exception of a few, I really despise the human race. Those who have seen me on the old firestream can testify that.)

U + me + bffs.
Though I've never hated a human being... I just cannot stand society.
'Cept for you fine ladies and gents, a'course.

Grim Banger

I am the exact same way, but I have personally hated a human being before. Something from the past, but it creeps up sometimes. I am really glad that people here realize my misanthropy is humans in general ala society and not every and all individual people (although sometimes that creeps up on me). Even if I do hate another individual human, I never show hate to them. I can personally thank Christ for me holding back on hurting people. Praise God for that! But that still doesn't mean I accept or condone much of humanity and what it has done. Humanity really causes me to Puke

To hate "society" is to hate all human beings, because society is comprised of individuals and is not a seperate a existing entity.
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:03 pm

olias wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
ELAN wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
The Beast Slayer wrote:
Love rawks is all Im saying. People may see me as clingy, but I genuinely love people. Who cares what other people think. Razz I love you *hugs*

You may love people, but I am a True Genuine Misanthrope! Grim Banger

(Not joking, with the exception of a few, I really despise the human race. Those who have seen me on the old firestream can testify that.)

U + me + bffs.
Though I've never hated a human being... I just cannot stand society.
'Cept for you fine ladies and gents, a'course.

Grim Banger

I am the exact same way, but I have personally hated a human being before. Something from the past, but it creeps up sometimes. I am really glad that people here realize my misanthropy is humans in general ala society and not every and all individual people (although sometimes that creeps up on me). Even if I do hate another individual human, I never show hate to them. I can personally thank Christ for me holding back on hurting people. Praise God for that! But that still doesn't mean I accept or condone much of humanity and what it has done. Humanity really causes me to Puke

To hate "society" is to hate all human beings, because society is comprised of individuals and is not a seperate a existing entity.
Not true. Society is an ideal of how people should act. People are the lego blocks that make up the death star model.
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Death over Life

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:44 pm

olias wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
ELAN wrote:
Death over Life wrote:
The Beast Slayer wrote:
Love rawks is all Im saying. People may see me as clingy, but I genuinely love people. Who cares what other people think. Razz I love you *hugs*

You may love people, but I am a True Genuine Misanthrope! Grim Banger

(Not joking, with the exception of a few, I really despise the human race. Those who have seen me on the old firestream can testify that.)

U + me + bffs.
Though I've never hated a human being... I just cannot stand society.
'Cept for you fine ladies and gents, a'course.

Grim Banger

I am the exact same way, but I have personally hated a human being before. Something from the past, but it creeps up sometimes. I am really glad that people here realize my misanthropy is humans in general ala society and not every and all individual people (although sometimes that creeps up on me). Even if I do hate another individual human, I never show hate to them. I can personally thank Christ for me holding back on hurting people. Praise God for that! But that still doesn't mean I accept or condone much of humanity and what it has done. Humanity really causes me to Puke

To hate "society" is to hate all human beings, because society is comprised of individuals and is not a seperate a existing entity.

Not true. If that were so, then everybody who says they hate the US government, hates every and all politicians within it. Yes, I know Obama isn't very well liked, but there are a few politicians (like Ron Paul for me) who were a part of the US government that we loved and cared for. Society is everything The Beast Slayer said. Society is like religion, but the people are people regardless of what society or religion they belong to. You don't have to hate the people to hate the society, and you don't have to hate the society to hate the people either.

One last thing, misanthropy doesn't necessarily mean hate, although it can and has been taken to that point before. Misanthropy also means dislike of the human race, or even simply distrust of the human race. So, if you don't trust many people in life, you are a misanthrope. Misanthropy being purely hate is one of the biggest misconceptions of the word/view of misanthropy. Shoot, when you Truly look at it, Christianity is a misanthropic faith. Why else do you think there is such a low low tolerance for the human nature, even going as far as to call it flesh? Why else do you think God requires us to have to dramatically change for Him to accept us?
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:27 pm

therockismighty wrote:

I still question why you keep pointing out what all these people are doing wrong, but don't go to God first.. venting to Him, letting go of offence, working on the things you can so you can make the friends who have your back.


Grinchy, work on your imperfections, learn to love yourself, learn to have grace, keep loving people, do not have unrealistic expectations of others, and sow into the Kingdom not fruitless relationships.

This is actually all currently happening, it's pretty awesome and feels good.
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:36 pm

I'm not even going to pretend I know what love is.
(There's a decent amount of seriousness to that)

I know what preferences are,
I know what affection is,
I certainly know what LUST is,
I know what enabling is,
I know how to use the word "love" correctly in a sentence,
but I, honest to God, really don't think I understand "love" - the feeling, emotion, whatever...

On a side note, when it comes to saying the "L" word, something puts on the breaks to the synapses in my brain. I get told "I love you" (ugh, I even feel dirty typing it) I freeze and/or say something stupid. Today for instance over the phone:

My friend Kim: Ok babe, I love you and I'll talk to you again hopefully before Christmas.
Hguols: I... *giggles* ok.

WHAT THE HELL!!!?!??!!

....perhaps one day I'll understand why.
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olias

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:39 pm

this thread is getting really fruity.
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:52 pm

oh olias!! gimme a HUG!!!!! cheers
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Hguols

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:48 pm

*shows up at Olias's door with a plunger in one hand and a zip-lock bag in the other*

"Listen! Olias! I need a HUGE favor....."
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:36 pm

Hguols wrote:
I'm not even going to pretend I know what love is.
(There's a decent amount of seriousness to that)

I know what preferences are,
I know what affection is,
I certainly know what LUST is,
I know what enabling is,
I know how to use the word "love" correctly in a sentence,
but I, honest to God, really don't think I understand "love" - the feeling, emotion, whatever...

On a side note, when it comes to saying the "L" word, something puts on the breaks to the synapses in my brain. I get told "I love you" (ugh, I even feel dirty typing it) I freeze and/or say something stupid. Today for instance over the phone:

My friend Kim: Ok babe, I love you and I'll talk to you again hopefully before Christmas.
Hguols: I... *giggles* ok.

WHAT THE HELL!!!?!??!!

....perhaps one day I'll understand why.
HAHAHA! *giggles* Dude. That is funny. Yeah...Lust is a stranger to noone...certainly no guy on this board.
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therockismighty

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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:13 pm

metalgrinch wrote:
therockismighty wrote:

I still question why you keep pointing out what all these people are doing wrong, but don't go to God first.. venting to Him, letting go of offence, working on the things you can so you can make the friends who have your back.


Grinchy, work on your imperfections, learn to love yourself, learn to have grace, keep loving people, do not have unrealistic expectations of others, and sow into the Kingdom not fruitless relationships.

This is actually all currently happening, it's pretty awesome and feels good.

Great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Why is Love seen as a weakness?   

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Why is Love seen as a weakness?

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